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BS 9999:2008 capacity limits v government guidance
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Posted By Ian Miles
Hey, isn't it great?
The government fire risk assessment guidance for calculating door widths per person uses a totally diferent calculation method to the new BS 9999:2008.
Use the government guidance and I get 100 (750mm in a normal risk premises). Use the new standard and I get 182 for a 800mm door which extrapolates down to 170 for a 750mm door.
I appreciate all the other variable which have been taken into account - and I have. But what a difference.
So which do I go for? The new standard or the government guidance based on BS 5588?
Answers on a postcard to "Hey BSI, why is a 750mm door width suddenly so much safer..."
Seriously, it has put me in an awkward spot because my earlier RA now seems overcautious...
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Posted By shaun mckeever
what about 'effective door width' - google Jake Pauls
and 'dynamic door width' - google Steve Gwynne
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Posted By Richard Hammer
You must remember they are guidance for you to use as a bench mark...best practice.
Will the 100 -170 make a massive difference to your FRA????? will the client lose out because of the slight differences.
Agreed it is a pain that they are all not signing from the same hymn sheet, but it is you and your ability to risk assess the width and if it is suitable and sufficient in line with all the other factors you take into account.
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Posted By Stumpy
Hi,
After speaking to colleagues who deal with this new standard, it is still in draft draft format and has not been officially approved. However it is designed to give greater flexibility without risk.
It really is a great once it is official.
Regards
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Posted By Richard Hammer
I was at the understanding it is approved hence the BS9999 instead of DD9999.
Came into full circulation before Christmas
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Posted By Bob Youel
also note the DDA requirements because no standard that I have looked at, inclusive of the building regs, adequately explains etc the DDA angle - example
After a lot of work we finally decided to leave a set of external gates [heritage 2] as they were and guess what - the first wheel chair user that arrived could not get in as their wheel chair was not a standard [if there is such a thing] wheel chair!
Politically; irrespective of the law, it would have been dynamite if we did nothing so we had to spend lots of £ to make the entrance bigger!
A good RA in the first place would have identified the potential problem but the various parties would have gone the easy route irrespective but the adviser at the time would have done their bit although as usual they would have bee seen as rocking the boat
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Posted By Ian Miles
Thanks for all the lively feedback everyone. All good points.
I guess what really irks me is that I made a thorough FRA two years ago to be compliant with RR(FS)O and utilising the official govt. guidance that was published for it. The guidance refers to BS (e.g. BS5588) so that must have been taken into consideration.
As I say, strict adherence to the guidance gives a figure of 106 (800mm door) but I upped this to 120 based on the mitigation of automatic fire detection, shortness of travelling distance, etc. I also considered the fact that this was a small nightclub serving alcohol and the fact that the alternative (discounted) route was much longer so wasn't prepared to go above 120.
Two years later they want to improve turnover so don't like my 120 persons max answer.
They then bring in two (yes two) highly qualified full-time fire risk assessors from FPA who use the new BS9999:2008 which for a B2 premises (roughly medium-low risk) allows 4.1mm per person. Using the new standard the capacity is actually 195! In pure terms, the difference between the old and new 106 v 195 - nearly 85% increase, so not a slight difference!
It's left me with a very difficult situation to resolve...
By the way - BSI say "BS 9999 will supersede DD 9999, and the entire BS 5588 series (with the exception of BS 5588-1), which will be withdrawn on 6 April 2009."
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BS 9999:2008 capacity limits v government guidance
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