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Posted By brodie22
We work in a shared premesis, the landlord has produced a Fire Risk Assessment, but i am wondering what our responsibility is regarding Fire Drills, alarm tests etc.
Do we have to carry out our own fire drill or does it HAVE to include every other company within the building.
Does anyone know my responsibilities versus the landlords, i.e. do i have to carry out my own Fire Risk Assessment or is the one the landlord has drawn up OK? (i realsie this may be dificult to commnet on without having seen the risk assessment, but in general terms)
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Posted By Ron Hunter
I suggest you refer to Regulation 11 of the Management Regulations (Co-operation and Co-ordination) and the information contained in the L21 ACoP as your principle guide here Brodie22.
There should be one Fire Risk Assessment for the premises (unless parts can be considered as entirely seperate and self-contained).
The FRA must take account of the structure and the risks associated with all the activities therein. The cynic in me says the FRA produced by the Landlord may have been produced as a generic and in isolation, and of no real relevance to the whole range of actual activities & risks arising within the premises (but I could be wrong!)
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Posted By GaryC40
No disrespect Ron - but in my opinion you are wrong with your suggestion. The Fire legislation stated has primacy over MHSAW and as such is regulated by the Fire Service, not HSE. The link supplied by EF is all brodie22 needs to know in the first instance.
PS - Speaking as a 'landlord' (over 75 properties) it has been my experience EVERYTIME (so far) that significant deficiencies in FRAs are actually down to the tenant! The completion of a suitable & sufficient FRA is VERY much dependant on input from both, however is generally driven by the owner of the building as the landlord generally always retains some responsibility.
The FRA content must be proportionate to the level of control they each have of the building.
Simples :)
GC
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Posted By joolz040770
Just had to reply to this one.
The Landlord's FRA should be in addition to your own. Every employer must have their own FRA and a Fire Plan which is cascaded down to their employees.
I have a FRA for each site I manage, 50% of which are leased. The FRA's are updated at least annually with building health checks carried out as necessary in between at the appropriate intervals.
You are entitled to reveiw the Landlord's FRA and the Landlord is entitled to have site of your FRA. Several of our Landlord's FRA's have not been indepth enough and my own FRA has highlighted additional risks, some of which have been serious and required immediate attention by the Landlord.
Hope this helps.
Julie-Anne
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Posted By Rod D
Dear all,
I am with Gary on this one, as a Landlord we instruct a Fire Consultant to undertake a FRA of the common parts and the plant areas and any other area where the Landlord/Managing Agent as responsibility.
I write to all tenants annually and ask them if they have carried out FRA within the last 12 months and if so are there any Significant Findings, which may have an impact on the Landlords Areas or on any other tenanted areas, if so what are they and are you going to rectify them within the given timescales of the report.
When I get their responses I place them in the Buildings Fire Log Book, the usual responses are “FRA carried out within the last 12 months Risk Rating, Low, Medium”, etc.
If they by chance send me the entire FRA I send it back to them as my interpretation of the Order is that if I hold their FRA’s I could be Vicariously Liable as we the Landlord are not the Responsible Person for the tenants demise. To that end you cannot have one FRA for a Multi Tenanted Property.
If a tenants FRA highlights Significant Findings that must be rectified within a given timeframe then I shall write and inform of their responsibility and impress upon them that these must be rectified.
I would be keen on other person’s interpretation of this.
Aye
RD
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Posted By Ron Hunter
GaryC40: Maybe my wording wasn't the best. Leaving aside the issue of legal precedence, my suggestion is that MHSWR Reg 11 and associated ACoP will serve well as a guiding principle in ensuring mutual co-operation and co-ordination.
RodD: I like your approach.
Joolz040770:
Every employer (duty holder) must ensure a suitable and sufficient FRA is completed, but not necessarily have "one each". Where employers share multiple-occupancy an overarching shared and co-ordinated approach for the premises is surely the sensible way to go?
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Posted By GaryC40
The most important thing is:
Make sure that all the FRAs clearly state who is responsilble for doing what.
Drills
Exercises
PAT
FIT
Smoke Alarm
Fire Alarm
etc etc
Again the link provided by earlier poster clarifies all of this clearly.
Rod - we use the same approach, however even with all the letters, site visits and even tenants meetings (organised by us) Tenants still are slow to keep their FRA up to date!
Ron - i understand your point regarding reg 11. The principles are indeed the same.
Joolz - As the Landlord and owner of the leased building we demand that a suitable a sufficient FRA is carried out before occupancy terms are agreed or renewed. If not, a competent person carries out one on behalf of the client and they are charged accordinally. We retain a copy of all tenants FRA and review them to ensure that all areas are covered and that responsibility is clear.Where defiecences are noted tenants are contacted and requested to provide an action plan etc. (ditto Rod)
Now - have a great weekend!
GC
:)
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Posted By Rod D
Ron
I have a Healthy Fear of Fire as I used to work as Head of Fire & Safety in, at the time the largest Immigration Centre in Europe so fire issues kept me busy.
I think it is all about keeping in communications with tenants and ensuring everyone is singing off the same song sheet.
RD
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