Posted By calmond
I am installing a new partition and door in the entrance lobby of a small (2500 sqft) 2 storey office building. The door is to separate the ground and first floors to allow occupation by two companies. The building is 3 years old, the lobby small (50 sqft), and at present there are no doors at all between the open plan first floor offices and the final (and only) exit. There is an existing fire door between the ground floor offices and the lobby. Does the new door have to be fire rated, given that there is nothing there at all at present and also that there would then be 2 fire doors between the ground and first floor areas?

Posted By calmond
Apologies if my question was basic - I am the building owner and not a Health & Safety specialist. Happened across this forum whilst doing some basic internet research.

Posted By Messy Shaw
Such works will definitely require a review of your fire risk assessment (assuming you have one). The details given are a little light and insufficient to provide a guesstimate which is all you can possibly hope to achieve on an internet forum.

So:


How many staircases are there between 1st + Ground floor?


From the furthest point on the 1st floor, how far would you have to walk to reach the final exit door?

Are both occupancies offices? (or are they different 'purpose groups' as defined in Approved Document B of the building regs?)

Posted By calmond
Hi Messy Shaw, thanks for you input - in answer to your questions:

How many staircases are there between 1st + Ground floor? Only the one.

From the furthest point on the 1st floor, how far would you have to walk to reach the final exit door? Approx 8 paces to the top of the stairs, which have 22 steps and a 90 deg turn. The door will be 1 pace from the foot of the stairs, then another 1 pace to the final exit

Are both occupancies offices? (or are they different 'purpose groups' as defined in Approved Document B of the building regs?) Both occupancies are offices.

To be honest, this post was really about confirming my 'gut feel'. My concern is that if I ask building control I suspect they will play safe and insist on a 'proper' fire break.

However, it seems to me that the commonsense answer is no, as there is no fire break (or indeed any kind of break) there at present.

From an egress perspective the new door will have a vision panel, be 'in line' with the stairs and the final exit (which is fully glazed). Maximum theoretical occupancy on the first floor is probably about 12, however in practice is likely to be much lower, probably around 8/9, especially as the office is let with only 4 parking spaces and there are no nearby public car parks.

From a cost perspective there is obviously going to be much more expense in a proper fire break than a simple security door, especially as we will have to open up ceiling voids and scribe the partitioning around the structural members of the floor.

Now I wouldn't mind going to all that expense if I felt it was genuinely necessary but as I say, commonsense tells me it isn't.

Posted By shaun mckeever
Calmond, it seems you have already assessed the risk. Make sure that you record what you have described in your postings. This will form part of your fire risk assessment. In my view, by your description you have no concerns so long as there is a suitable means of raising the alarm. In such a small premise this should be fairly basic. With a medium fire growth rate how long will it take before tenability limits are reached versus the time it will take for persons to escape plus a margin of safety. I think if you can assess the two then you will see that you have no concerns. Just my opinion of course.