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#1 Posted : 21 April 2009 12:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By polo Has any reader any experience of creating containment for a large amount of contaminated run off water from fire fighting and sprinkler operation? Information from the local Fire service has given me an estimate of 500,000 litres per hour and with our sprinklers as well it goes up to nearly 1m litres. We are also close to a small beck that adds to the problem Any help or contacts would be greatly appreciated
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#2 Posted : 21 April 2009 12:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By A Campbell Polo, we have a similar problem in the event of the sprinkler systems engaging. We have on call contractors in the event of run off to assist in pumping equipment to help prevent excessive flow into the brook and redirect into the watercourse systems. Although in dilute form we expect no environmental harmful substances be involved. Not sure how deep you intend to go into this subject as normally part of a business continuity planning scheme which your insurance company may have an imput?
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#3 Posted : 21 April 2009 12:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By gazfromdonny Your local environment agency representative would be happy to come out and assess your site and offer pragmatic solutions on how to contain potential contaminated water that could cause any category of pollution incident. The beck is the obvious concern and even esthetically changing the appearance of the water from fire hydrant water may leave you vulnerable to a fine. Harsh but true. Call the EA. regards Gary
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#4 Posted : 22 April 2009 10:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By DPK Polo This issue should be covered within your Environmental Management System, obviously that is if you have one etc etc. Dependent on the lie of the land at your site it would be practically impossible to contain half a million litres of any liquid unless you have very large interceptor tanks or the whole site is bunded, which i doubt as this is usually reserved for COHMA type sites. 1 million litres then you can forget it! So the action you may want to consider is how do we prevent the occurrence and if it does happen, how will we reduce the affects of the possible pollution. Again with cost in mind look at the options of sluice gates at the immediately affected drains, another option is inflatable bungs which you place into the drains. But then what do you do with all that collected water, it totally depends on what it is polluted with! If it were i that was dealing with your issue i would focus 75% on the prevention of the incident and 25% on the reactive measures as the cost of them could be astronomical. Hope this helps, if you would like to chat (as i dislike typing) then feel free to call. Regards DPK
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#5 Posted : 23 June 2009 12:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By SPARKSJ My company had these exact concerns and found a company at a recent exhibition in London (FutureSource) who have addressed these issues and invented a system which contains the fire water using a fully automated system or manual system - you can contact them on 0800 731 9313 they are called Environmental Innovations Limited, not sure where they are based in the UK. www.environmental-innovations.biz
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#6 Posted : 23 June 2009 13:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By martinw Polo if you are going to get in touch with the Environment Agency have a look at PPG 18: http://publications.envi...O600BBUD-e-e.pdf?lang=_e which gives guidance specifically for pollution planning in terms of control of fire water run off. Hope this helps Martin
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#7 Posted : 24 June 2009 00:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By andymak Contact Hertfordshire Fire and Rescue Service, they had to set up and maintain containment of the fire water and foam run off from the Buncefield disaster. As far as I am aware they are now considered to be experts in this field. At the height of teh incident 250000 litres of foam and 25 million litres of water were used. Whilst there was some escape of run off minimal environmental damage was caused. Hope this helps.
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#8 Posted : 24 June 2009 10:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kenneth Patrick You either need a 1 million litre container perhaps created by securely bunding your entire site. Or you could have an environmental management system. Ken
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#9 Posted : 24 June 2009 10:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kenneth Patrick Mark, Apologies, there is another way; if your drains can hold 1 million litres. "Environmental Agencies around the world recommend (UK PPG18 and PPG21) that containment within the drainage system is the most cost effective and practical way to contain spills, firewater and floods without having to spend many tens of thousands of Pounds, Euros or Dollars on bunding a whole site."
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#10 Posted : 24 June 2009 11:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By SPARKSJ Sorry I should have been more specific about what Environmental Innovations actually do, they DO use the drain as a containment system. Rather than working against gravity with spill-kits they allow the drain to do what it was meant to do, but prevent it from getting out into the environment. This buys you time to get the liquid sucked out and re-cycled. The same technology in portable guise is used by the fire service to lock off a drain prior to using foam or water.
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#11 Posted : 25 June 2009 09:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By David.Hanlon You may wish to have a look at the CLG website and read appropriate sections of the Fire service Manual 'Environmental Protection' http://www.communities.g...e/environmentprotectvol2 This is free to download or you can purchase from the TSO With my co-author Bruce Mcglashan from the Environment Agency we produced this government publication for Fire & Rescue Services. It was published last October. It has information to supplement the PPGs that other contributors have rightly mentioned. I hope to write an industry version to be published next year With regard to fire sprinklers, I have been able to negotiate with Agency officers, the fire water containment capacity required for sites based on the the fact that fire sprinklers will in normal circumstances (ie without an associated explosion) deal with a fire using between one and three sprinkler heads. This means that the vast quantities of fire water that would have been applied by firefighters does not come into the calculation. There are other innovative solutions available If the questioner would like more information please feel free to telephone me 07775 426224 or david.hanlon@sfenv.co.uk David
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#12 Posted : 25 June 2009 12:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Malone The following draft guide issued by the FPA (www.thefpa.co.uk) gives guidance on calculating volume of water likely to be discharged in a fire. SI - Guide to the Management of Fire Water in Sprinkler Protected Properties
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#13 Posted : 05 October 2009 10:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By brianmback Dear Member There is a cost effective solution that has been approved by the EA on other sites with similar firewate problems. To block the brook - this is best achieved using an automated infaltible bladder system that is activated automatically when there is a fire or a chemical spill. Similarly to contain the firewater best practice other then spending a fortune on bunding is to use the drains as containment vessels agian with an inflatible bladder/s as necessary to create containment vessels. There is a very useful website www.environmental-innovations.biz that have these solutions, tel 0800 731 9313.
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