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Posted By Rod D
Hi Guys
I was wondering if any of you "Security Minded" Professionals out there could give me some advice.
When I used to deliver Bomb Scene Management lessons back in the late 90's I recall the Cordons being as follows: 100m for hand held device 200m for larger device and 400m for vehicle borne devices and the Assembly Area just being on the other side of the cordon (Preferably with a building in between you and the suspect device).
However I have been looking at Disaster Recovery Plan for a Building in Mayfair and it states that the Assembly Point should be 500m away and for absolute safety, an alternative assembly area or areas at least 1km away will have to be considered.
Now as I say it was a long time go when I used to deliver these lessons however is 500m & 1Km not excessive especially in London, where you can plan an escape route by keeping personnel on the same pavement and take them into another road with another building in between you and the suspect device. (Taking into account that you are not going to walk past a secondary device on advice of the Police) As I recall it was the 4 C's Confirm Clear Cordon & Control I mean an Assembly Point 1Km away personnel will just leave or go home personnel in charge will not be able to control an evacuation 1Km away.
I would really appreciate feedback on this.
Aye
Rod D
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Posted By Bob Youel
it all depends on the type of the bomb that we are talking about as all the distance figures given, in my personal opinion as an x sapper who was trained in and worked with explosives etc, are compromise figures
if you evacuate a modern glass covered type building with similar around it; it may be worse than staying inside the building in which the 'bomb' has been found!
Again it all goes back to individual risk assessment noting that common sense and the facts says that its highly unlikely that a bomb would be a real risk to the vast majority noting that we kill ~4000 people a year on the roads!
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Posted By Dave Merchant
The problem is who you're talking about - cordons for responders are smaller than for residents, as they have the ability to work in a higher risk environment. In the past we didn't really consider the issue of dispersal devices for civvy building evac, nor the secondary effects of VBIEDs. Until recently the idea a device could bring an entire building down was well outside civilian emergency planning models.
Email me if you want to talk numbers.
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Posted By Rod D
Cheers Bob
Ah Gentleman of the Royal Engineers
Back to evacuation do you think 500m is excessive in a a built up area like London?
Aye
Rod D (Former Scots Guards)
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Posted By Rod D
Dave
Thanks,cannot e-mail you as I am on Web Mail not Outlook.
Yes you are correct you now have to think way outside the box now.
Aye
Rod D
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Posted By Rod D
Hi Guys
Thought I would have had more of a response than this.
Ah well never mind.
Thanks to those that responded.
Aye
Rod D
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Posted By Dave Merchant
The reason there aren't many responses is there aren't many of us who deal with IED/CBRN planning, at least on this forum, and we tend to prefer not to wave numbers about in broad daylight. It's also very difficult to say anything without knowing about the site in question (London is London, but it's the fine details of cladding, floor counts, street width, etc. which makes all the difference). You could survive a VBIED 10 feet away if you were on opposite sides of the right type of wall, but in open country I'd want to be in a different postcode.
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Posted By Paul Clarke-Scholes CMIOSH
Dave,
You will get technical, Very Big Improvised Explosive Device?
Rod,
I demolished some of the buildings involved in the latter stages of the IRA campaign on the mainland. In St Mary Axe, where the Gherkin is now, I saw that the glass came through at such speed, that you could trace the outlines of the window mullions in the plaster of the rear walls about 6 meters away.
Different approaches required for bombers who give warnings and those who don't? I think I'm with the alternative postcode theory here, just in case the VBIED is dirty, and I don't mean fertilizer!
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Posted By Dave Merchant
Sorry - VBIED = vehicle-borne improvised explosive device.
Generally we use "IED" to refer to something man-portable like a rucksack. VBIEDs can be as big as the truck which carries them, so the prospective blasts can often relate to things like the height limits on your basement car park (hence why many buildings reduced the barriers after the WTC truck bomb). Lots of lateral thinking required, y'see!
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