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#1 Posted : 08 June 2009 16:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Lawlor Hi Everyone I am in a bit of a predicament and wondering if someone can help me get out of it please I do some voluntary work for the local parish and the parish manager has asked me to look at a 12 foot high granite stone wall which is approx 3 foot from the edge of the side line of a football pitch the parish has rented this pitch for the last 23 years to the same football club and in this times there has been no claims or reported incidences he asked me to write a report saying that it is too dangerous for the club to continue playing on the field as someone is going to get seriously hurt I agree with him but these guys are playing for the last 23 years with no issue can you please advise on the best route to take Running away would be a good option but I cant really thanks in advance
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#2 Posted : 08 June 2009 16:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Elliott John I would have thought that the fact that it has been there for 23 years plus with no reported incident says it all. The fact that it is 12 foot high and granite sort of indicates that it is there and you can hardly miss it in terms of it being obvious, probably tempers the way the players react in that part of the field. Regards
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#3 Posted : 08 June 2009 16:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stefan Daunt Hi John, 3 feet does seem very close to the edge of the pitch, how do they take a throw in? Would it be possible to move the pitch markings so it is further away from the wall? It will need re-lining before next season anyway and depending on the pitches current size as long as it reaches the FA's mininmum spec would still be playable. If the proximity of the wall was an issue, indoor 5 aside would not be playable. Although I can see why he is concerned, sliding tackles, wet pitch into the wall and a possible claim on our cotton wool, nanny state.
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#4 Posted : 08 June 2009 16:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil R Why do you agree with him? if on 23 years there has never been a problem what makes you think there will be now? whats different? Are you sure there is no hidden motive in this request?
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#5 Posted : 08 June 2009 17:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB4 Have to agree with Stefan =- it's good sense to move it if possible. Wrong speed, wrong angle and there could easily be a serious injury.
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#6 Posted : 08 June 2009 17:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Liz Skelton What does the risk assessment say? If you can put sensible control measures in there without having to ban the activity then surely that would be an agreeable way forward. It may also be worth checking if the parish have objections to the football team playing there now...it sounds like someone is trying to use 'elf and safety as an excuse. If you do find it is a risk that can't be controlled - be sure that you explain exactly what the risk is - just saying 'elf and safety reasons may give us a bad name... Thanks Liz
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#7 Posted : 08 June 2009 17:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By john thos 147 It sounds to me that the priest just doesnt want them playing footbal there. if this is the case i would not just write an RA that states the slab is dangerous as if it is it will need repairing and making safe.
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#8 Posted : 08 June 2009 17:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve M Granger Make sure you have a procedure and preferably records of pitch inspection before matches (eg by the ref). Consider the feasibility of protection from serious impact on a RA - even if it is mitigated and unnecessary by virtue of other controls such as forewarning visitors and new referees to keep a close eye on play along that wing at the start of the match. Consider highlighting the wall (?) using tape at the beginning of the game to improve perception and distance by players. See if a 'gentlepersons' agreement can be made between captains at the beginning of the game to brief their team. Complicated, burdonsome, unflattering for the home side but ...... ...there may be a possibility of impact which is foreseable, there may be a claim, there may be a settlement of 6 figures.... There may be a wish to wind the clock back.... ... especially to avoid paraplegia of a young family man. 'Wise old monkey'
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#9 Posted : 08 June 2009 18:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Rose The 'devil is in the detail'! "..he asked me to write a report saying that it is too dangerous for the club to continue playing on the field as someone is going to get seriously hurt..". Why ask someone to write a report but give them the conclusion that they should reach? How can yu be objective? As others have suggested, I reckon that there is some other motive other than purely health and safety. Other that that, cover the wall if a foot of sponge rubber, flashing lights' PIR activated alarm and hazard warning tape! KIDDING
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#10 Posted : 08 June 2009 18:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve M Granger Phil lets not jump to conclusions - presumably the parish meetings will hold the answer to this (are the old / new neighbours fed up with high volume testosterone etc). Or is the priest just being sensible and approaching this from a DoC perspective? Supposed to be caring sort of fellows I hear..... One thing does bother me.... 'I do some voluntary work for the local parish' I hope you voluntarily have PI if you commit your professional thoughts to writing! Alternatively get clarification that the Parish insurers (PL probably) will indemnify any work you do on behalf of the Parish. Better still get the insurers our for tea and scones on a Saturday and ask them! .... what do you mean the parish aren't insured...... ??? ;-)
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#11 Posted : 08 June 2009 19:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Rose I may well be wrong, but at least two other people above have suggested that there may be another motive! I have been doing the job long enough to know that as well as legitimate health and safety concerns, people also 'use' health and safety as an 'excuse' to 'legitimise' some other agenda. I have seen that first hand time and again. If someone asks me to do a report or a risk assessment and also tell me what the conclusion or outcome has to be, then it is difficult (impossible) to be objective. If someone has already reached the conclusion, I am left asking myself why the need a report as they must have already have evaluated the risks etc to come to their conclusion. Unless of course they have reached that conclusion for another reason. As I say I may be wrong but 23 years no incidents and now a request for a report that MUST reach a specific conclusion! Sounds a bit fishy to me (and I aren't talking about the contents of Baldric's apple crumble!)
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#12 Posted : 08 June 2009 19:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Rose I will add that to ask someone to do such a report with a specific conclusion is mind is pretty unfair. Asking them to do a report and reach their own unbiased and (as afr as possible) objective conclusion; now that is another ball game (pun intended)
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#13 Posted : 08 June 2009 19:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve M Granger We differ, I frequently tell people what to find in their conclusions..... .... because I know who the reasonable man really is and he dosen't live in Clapham anymore, and he certainally doesn't travel by pubic transport anymore.... ..... he's gone upmarket because of all the claims he has collected... ;-( Steve
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