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#1 Posted : 10 June 2009 10:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Roy Scott2 So there is a huge issue on the horizon for business who deal with shipping containers. So many of the containers are now fumigated against pest/insects and often this is done on board the ship. The chemicals used are wide ranging and are extremely toxic. I have had some cases of illness happen during off loading of these containers. As a result we now test each container for gases and treat them as confined space...this for companies dealing in large quantities of containers is a huge task. While the gases are supposed to disperse over the journey, more than likely they do not and are present in large quantities on arrival. Often shippers are overdosing on these fumigants. I know in some EMEA countries certification of degassing is need at the port, but this is still difficult to control. So long winded way to ask if any members are aware of this , what was their experiences like and did they reach a satisfactory solution?
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#2 Posted : 10 June 2009 10:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By FAH Hi Roy You don't identify your location, but I'm assuming the UK. This is a major problem in the shipping industry generally & requires very specific procedures & controls that are rarely as effective as the users may like or believe. Your current approach is, without being picky over some of the intervening issues, probably the most reasonably practicable. However, I do have serious concerns about the gas-testing regime & it effectiveness. Frank Hallett
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#3 Posted : 10 June 2009 14:05:00(UTC)
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Posted By SteveD-M Roy I have dealt with a few containers coming from the far east and as you say some do and some don't have certificates. I would agree with Franks comment on the gas testing, however you are taking a very similar approach to what I have taken in the past.
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#4 Posted : 10 June 2009 14:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Roy Scott2 Ok Thanks guys...
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#5 Posted : 10 June 2009 19:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By andy.c. Frank we deal with many containers on a daily basis, all fumigated containers are tested independently, and cert issued. i would be interested to learn what your concerns to the effectiveness of this testing are so i can ensure we are doing all we can. regards Andy
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#6 Posted : 10 June 2009 20:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By FAH Hi Andy My principal concerns regard the selection of the correct detector for the specific gases to be checked & also the difficulty of ensuring that all of the space is fully checked every time. This is in conjunction with the issues of ventilation & control of exposure to others. Additionally, my experience has been that those doing the "sniffing" are rarely effectively managed under MHSW, let alone in respect of the Confined Spaces Regs. However, if you're happy that your process really is effectively managed, then my concern may be misplaced on this occassion. Frank Hallett
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#7 Posted : 11 June 2009 03:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By andy.c. Frank Many thanks for the response, i am quite happy with the procedures in place for a 2o foot box, but will know need to review and make suggestions in relation to the 40 footers (hand ball/4 hour tip)although to date we have had no issue's Does anybody know a source of info for the best equipment/ training provider should i decide to recommend in house continuous monitoring. Regards Andy PS before some wag suggests it "no i haven't got a canary"
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#8 Posted : 11 June 2009 11:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By FAH Hi Andy & Roy Almost invariably those doing the sniffing & providing "clearance Certs" are relatively independant of the main operation although a considerable degree of faith is placed upon their doing the job "safely" & producing or confirming a "safe" working environment. Andys' recent posts appear to confirm this - thus my observations about control. I'm not suggesting that those doing the sniffing are not doing a good job; but the controller of the container operatives must have an auditable trail to confirm that the interface between the two is effectively managed & monitored to provide the safest working environment for all. Incidentally, if you're in the UK, these containers will generally fall into the definition of a Confined Space as per the Confined Spaces regs. I don't feel it appropriate to continue on this point with the limited information available to me. Andy - you have mail. Frank Hallett
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