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Posted By Rich Bannister
Hi all,
We're having a real problem on site of people walking around (in general and up/down stairs) with their hands in their pockets.
Has anyone got any photos of people falling over or tripping over with their hands in pockets for a poster campaign?
Thanks,
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Posted By paulw71
Hi Rich
Perhaps you should consider banning trousers on your site.
Regards Paul
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Posted By Coshh Assessor
What is the "real problem" that this is causing?
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Posted By Luke.
Stich up the pockets... but that might mean another risk assessment and SSOW to be carried out for a needle and thread...
its a tough one :-P
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Posted By Luke.
I can see the daily mail now...
'elf and safety strikes again... people banned from putting hands in pockets...
does this mean that Fashion Designers will have to carry out a Design Risk Assessment for trousers with pockets?..
And its not even friday!
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Posted By Ian MacAskill
Place mandatory signs at the rails stating "use handrails provided" - bit OTT but did help improve at our workplace with "skippers" (most people do not realise that a handrail is a safety device.
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Posted By Swis
As stated previously, putting posters or enforcement rules for not puting hands in pocket a bit too much on the name of health and safety. However the issue could be addressed by informing staff of takig care when climbing up/down on the stairs, in one of the health and safety training sessions.
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Posted By Rich Bannister
Thanks for all the responses so far.
We have a problem on site with people walking with their hands in their pockets, which we feel (along with many others) is a potential cause of serious injury; e.g. falling down stairs without being able to grab onto the handrail, etc.
There doesn't appear the be a "real problem" except that certain people seem disposed to walk around site and on stairs with their hands in their pockets.
We have tried toolbox talks on the issue and the HSE's "shattered lives" posters.
We are continually vigilant in removing trip hazards (trailing cables, etc.) and providing coaching to those that create the hazards. All stairways have handrails on both sides in "safety yellow" paint, these are used by the majority of the workforce and there are signs on every level to use them.
We (hopefully) have mitigated most of major hazards on site but we see this (apparently minor) issue as a genuine cause for concern.
So, does anyone have any photos that may be of use for a poster campaign on the subject?
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Posted By Swis
Ian,
No doubt hand rail is a safety device, as is a fencing on a a scaffolds. They are there to aid you prevent a fall but you don't really need to hold them.
the magic word is 'sensible risk management'. The problem is we start going too much in petty risk eliminations, hence giving our profession a bad name.
P.S. would you bann a person with no hands, using the stairs?
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Posted By Rich Bannister
Is it a "petty risk elimination" where we can see the possibility of someone falling down a flight of stairs with no means to grab onto the handrail?
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Posted By Ian MacAskill
At least he wouldn't have them in his pockets LOL
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Posted By Peter F.
Obviously this is a wind up.
I saw someone glance up yesterday as they were walking very, very dangerous indeed. I spoke with them harshly and then produced a R/A, SSOW, TBT and method statement, called all the employee's together read the TBT got them all to sign they had received it. Anyone got a presentation on glancing up when walking as I intend to train everyone in the dangers of this.
I hope to have the person disciplined when he returns from sick leave as he fell down a hole.
Come people get a life no wonder people think we have nothing better to do. If you start training people in the dangers of walking with hands in pockets, do you really think they will take notice of you when there are real problems and issues to be dealt with.
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Posted By paulw71
Why was something not done about the hole earlier ?
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Posted By Rich Bannister
All,
I'm glad that you have found something here to amuse you.
But, this was a genuine request for a genuine concern on site.
If you don't have anything constructive to say regarding the prevention of slips, trips and falls in the workplace then don't bother.
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Posted By Stefan Daunt
Sorry Rich and no offence intended, but I have to say that I find it, given your surname rather ironic that you have an interest in handrails.
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Posted By paulw71
Rich
people walking around with their hands in pockets is not, in my mind (or a lot of others) a health and safety issue, nor is it possible to control what people do with their own hands when travelling on foot from one place to another (unless you insist on them carrying something everywhere). If it was a major contributory factor in workplace accidents that could be controlled we would have the "how to walk safely regs"
As i am sure you are aware health and safety is already a big enough joke within various branches of the media without us willingly addding to it`s reputation as a profession filled with over cautious busybodies who just want to tell people what to do.
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Posted By Crim
I sometimes walk with hands in trouser pockets, also stand talking to people with hands in pockets. I am concious that I use my hands a lot when talking and see others doing the same. I think it can be a distraction. The answer is to carry something like a pen or pad etc.
I never have hands in pockets on stairs however.
I recently saw a High School head teacher walk around the playground with his hands in his pockets, that to me was worse than a safety issue as it does not look very smart.
I later saw a teacher the same, following his head teacher's example. Bad example to the kids!
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Posted By Swis
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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Posted By Haggis JM
This one is a favourite in the Oil & Gas industry and really gets my back up!
In some companies it is actually a disciplinary offence not to use the handrail in the office stairwells...
Get a grip (if you'll pardon the pun).
I come from a background of 25 years in heavy chemical industry where you didn't touch handrails unless you needed to as you didn't know what might be on them!
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Posted By Peter F.
Paul,
it hadn't been noticed as we look up a lot.
Rich
we are only joining in the joke that you posted as the query couldn't have been serious. A good job you haven't got young people working on the site as they tend to walk around with their hands down the front of their trousers.
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Posted By holmezy
Rich,
if its a big concern in your workplace then thats OK. In most work places, it wouldn't be considered a significant risk!
Didnt a large US Company that make "non stick" stuff once, or still have, a policy where not using the hand rails was a disciplinary offence, leading to ultimate dismissal? You could try that!
Posters and awareness through breifings would be sufficient for me!
Holmezy
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Posted By Graham Bullough
When I was at a meeting at a multi-storey HSE office back in June 2005 there was at least one A4 size poster on the main stairway entitled "Health & Safety Notice" showing a fairly catchy cartoon of 4 stairways which connected with each other (in the style of Escher the noted artist) with silhouette characters running up and down them, plus the advice "For your safety please hold onto the handrail".
I was mildly intrigued by the poster so I took a photo of it, hence my ability to describe it. (Taking the photo and/or telling you about the poster probably constitutes a breach of the Official Secrets Act or some other legislation.)
There's no clue as to who produced or provided the poster but, judging from its appearance, it may have been a local "in-house" creation. Evidently, one or more people at the office thought it appropriate to display it, along with several other official HSE posters about slips & trips and good posture for using VDUs.
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Posted By martinw
Rich
you have taken a bit of a kicking from the hoodies above. I agree that it should not be taken out of context, but it is an issue when someone falls down the stairs and injures themselves then sues you; and becomes a business issue such as when the guy in Northern Ireland civil service gets £300,000 awarded after a fall down stairs. The basics of whether hands were in pockets do not matter after the fall other than to allocate contributory negligence.
So - get a grip. Rich asked for a bit of help and you laughed in his face. Nice.
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Posted By Rich Bannister
"Posters and awareness through breifings would be sufficient for me"
This is exactly what I'm looking for!
I only asked a simple question if anyone had any pictures of people tripping over or similar for a poster campaign.
martinw, holmezy and Graham Bullough: Thanks for your helpful replies
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Posted By Nicholas Sutcliffe
When I was at school, I fell UP the stairs with my hands in my pockets, I broke my left wrist and right collar bone.
The school then introduced "stair monitors" to patrol the stair ways, giving out red "bad" cards for offenders.
Not such a daft question after all.
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Posted By IOSH Moderator
The Moderators would like to remind contributors that this is a forum for the professional discussion and debate of workplace health and safety and environmental issues. One of the acceptable use guidelines states: "You must not antagonise other users of this service..... "
Please bear this in mind. The Moderators may otherwise step in and lock this thread.
Jane Blunt
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Posted By Swis
Martin/Nicholas,
Provided a handrail is present, I can’t see a contributory negligence.
Let’s assume, you fell down the stairs whilst putting your hands in the pocket. Would you blame your employer for not asking you to remove your hands from your pockets.
Guys – no need to get offensive – we thought this is a windup question. Now , I realise that it wasn’t intended to. Hence, my posts still stand effective.
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Posted By martinw
Swis
there could(notice the word could) be an argument under section 2c of HASAWA if someone fell down the stairs and claimed that proper info and training etc had not been given - precisely the point of the info that was asked for by the originator of this thread. And there could be contributory negligence under section 7 if an employee failed to carry out etc or cooperate. Have a look at this from the head of HR at EDF when in 2007 they were going for a zero tolerance attitude to accidents:
"Zero harm is our goal," he said. "To that end, we are offering a huge amount of training and redefining the way people work.
"It goes right down to encouraging people to hold the handrail when they walk up the stairs in the office.
"We are not embarrassed about that," he added. "It might sound a bit 'nanny state', but if you want to have zero harm then you must be willing to do the basics."
See Swis this has been thought of before. By adults. Incidentally, that guff about 'no need to get offensive' is a tad rich when you had your input removed by the Mods due to its contents which I saw before it was removed.
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Posted By Swis
What a utter nonsense. Are you saying that we need to train people wof how to use stairs.
No wonder why we (health and safety professionals) get a bad name.
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Posted By IOSH Moderator
You were warned.
As the thread has now deviated from the original request and also become quite antagonistic, the thread has been locked.
Regards
Jonathan Breeze
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