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#1 Posted : 01 July 2009 09:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB4 The main advantage of locating electrical sockets at waist height for residents of sheltered accommodation is easy access without having to stoop down. Is there anything on the downside? Are building or electrical regulations involved? I can't think of any problems (other than the work involved and re-decoration); has anybody experienced any?
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#2 Posted : 01 July 2009 09:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Blenkharn Geoff Just a personal observation from experience with one of my in-laws. Raised sockets seem a generally good idea, but are vulnerable to being damaged from chair backs etc. I found one that had a knock from a dining chair back and was damaged sufficiently to create a real risk. Generally a good idea, but the must be granny proof!
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#3 Posted : 01 July 2009 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker Less vulnerable to flooding too!
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#4 Posted : 01 July 2009 09:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB4 Thanks Ian, good point.
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#5 Posted : 01 July 2009 10:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Swis Industry best practice suggests that sockets should be between 0.5m - 1.5m above the ground. Also stated in BS EN 60309
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#6 Posted : 01 July 2009 11:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Still Swis, Not in my copy it doesn't! 60309 is a product standard for industrial plugs and sockets, and the only mentions of height I can find are for type-testing purposes. BS 7671 (17th Edition Wiring Regs)states only that sockets should be installed at such a height that damage is unlikely. Part M of the Building Regs applies in new dwellings, and Approved Document M recommends suitable mounting heights between 450 mm and 1200 mm measured from the finished floor level. BS 8300 "Design of buildings and their approaches to meet the needs of disabled people Code of Practice" also includes some recommendations.
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#7 Posted : 01 July 2009 12:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Swis Reference: 17th Edition IEE Wiring Regulations: Design and Verification of Electrical Installations, Brian Scaddan, IEng, MIET Section 98., Switchgear and socket outlets There is definitely a British standards stating the recommended heights. (can’t remember at the moment)
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#8 Posted : 01 July 2009 13:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Bullough Just a thought for people who have or are considering waist height sockets as a measure against problems stemming from foreseeable flooding of their properties: Does the associated wiring incorporate junction boxes at lower levels which are vulnerable to flood water? If so, I guess one possible option is to alter the installations with longer cabling to relocate vulnerable boxes or even eliminate them. However, such alterations may be difficult and expensive. Therefore, does anyone know if waterproof junction boxes can be obtained and used to replace ordinary boxes. Thankfully I don't live in a flood-prone area myself, but guess that some users of this forum do and therefore may benefit from responses about this aspect. Hopefully, insurers, etc have already advised about altering electrical installations in dwellings and business premises. As regards waist height wall sockets generally, surely they are easier for everybody to use, not just persons with disabilities. Locating them at low level surely is just cheaper, quicker and easier for the electricians installing them - which explains why wall sockets are usually at low level unless otherwise specified!
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#9 Posted : 01 July 2009 13:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Still Swis, Do you mean that Brian Scaddan's book claims that 60309 includes a recommended mounting height? As stated earlier, that's a product standard and doesn't deal with installation issues, and is also specific to industrial plugs/sockets. The only BS I could find with any relevance is BS 8300. There might be something in the IET Guidance Notes on BS 7671, I'll check when I can get access to them.
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#10 Posted : 01 July 2009 13:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Swis Peter, If you check the reference provided above, (read the booklet name)it explains about various types of sockets. However, further information is available (Document M)which also states guidance on height of sockets which is slightly different to the ones I have mentioned above but not a big differece though. http://www.planningporta...s/br/BR_PDF_ADM_2004.pdf
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#11 Posted : 01 July 2009 13:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Still Graham, Interesting point! Junction boxes should only be located where they are accessible for maintenance, so they shouldn't be beneath floors or behind skirtings. There are some described as "maintenance-free", but I don't know any that would be suitable for prolonged immersion in water, especially foul water. In most domestic installations, the wiring to the sockets is run above the ceiling and drops down to the sockets, so on a ring system about 3 - 4 metres of cable is saved per socket by mounting them at waist height, but of course that'll be lost when wiring the upstairs sockets. The main objection to mounting at waist height comes from interior designers, who don't like them to be too visible.
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#12 Posted : 01 July 2009 13:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Still Swis, Yes, Approved Doument M. Isn't that what I said? I don't have access to Brian Scaddan's book, but I do have my own copy of the Wiring Regs thanks. I'd always recommend reading the text of standards rather than someone else's interpretation, but I will check with my colleague who is a member of JPEL 64, the BSI committee responsible for BS 7671. Peter
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#13 Posted : 01 July 2009 14:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB4 Excellent response, many thanks for all the answers.
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#14 Posted : 01 July 2009 14:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Swis Peter, Brian Scaddan’s book I mentioned earlier is an approved book and is available on IHS. Also if you don’t mind Document M has more value than any British Standard. Swis
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#15 Posted : 01 July 2009 14:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Swis Geoff, Do you want me to look for further guidance or the above satisfies your question? Swis
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#16 Posted : 01 July 2009 14:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Still Swis, Approved by whom? Brian's book is available from many suppliers, but it is still just the author's interpretation of the standard, whereas the content of the standard represents a consensus of opinion among the technical experts who make up the relevant Working Group. Brian Scaddan is a highly-respected trainer within the electrical industry, but his opinions carry no more weight than any of the other experts who has written guidance on the 17th edition wiring regs, BS 7671. BS 7671 does not contain recommended mounting heights other than the general one to avoid mechanical damage. If there were a conflict beweeen them, then yes, an Approved Document would generally carry more weight than a British Standard, but since there is no obvious conflict I can't see the relevance of that. Peter
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#17 Posted : 01 July 2009 15:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By GeoffB4 I've got the information I require from the responses thanks. There might be difficult moments on this forum with odd/different/high handed interpretations of rules, but for this sort of thing it is excellent.
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