Posted By Paul Skyrme Hi Alan, Just a few things, late now! First, competence is key, this is now defined in BS7671:2008. Thus the contractor should have knowledge of the 17th, this does not necessarily mean that he must hold C&G 2382, however, he should have a working knowledge of BS7671:2008 and how it should be applied. I am taking our company through NICEIC accreditation at the moment, and competent persons without the 2382 as I understand are expected to teach themselves, prior to getting the qualification. Does he have relevant PI insurance, if so will his insurers cover him for such work?

Posted By Paul Skyrme Hello Alan, The 17th edition qualification on its own is no indicator of competence! It is a 4 day course with an open book multi choice exam at the end included. Please see quote from NICEIC with regard to the 17th qualification. >> Certificate in the Requirements for Electrical Installations (BS7671: January 2008) - 2382-10 The aim of this unit is to enable the candidate to demonstrate that they are conversant with the IEE Wiring Regulations BS 7671:2008. Objective: This qualification is primarily aimed at practicing electricians with relevant experience and other allied professionals e.g. electrical engineers, contracts managers, designers, consultants, surveyors, and other related trades needing to update and enhance their understanding of IEE Wiring Regulations. It may also be suitable for anyone requiring an understanding of BS 7671, although prior knowledge in basic electrical science will be required. It is intended to ensure that on completion individuals are conversant with the format, content and the application of the Requirements for Electrical Installations BS 7671: 2008 (17th edition). Qualified competent electricians should hold S&G 2391 to ensure competence in inspection and testing,again qualification description below. However, neither alone would in my opinion be sufficient. The inspection & testing is a tough course, believe me I have done it! In contrast the regs course is a doddle, again having done the full 16th & the 17th update! The regs course only teaches you the way around the book really, though there is some learning obviously as it makes you aware of the regulations over and above your other underpinning knowledge and experience. >> Existing Electrical Installations This qualification has been developed in order to meet the needs of the electrical contracting industry. Objective: It is intended to enable candidates to become conversant with the requirements for inspection, testing and reporting of existing electrical installations It is aimed at practising electricians who have carried out initial verifications on electrical installations and require further training in periodic inspection, testing and reporting It is not suitable for those coming into the industry with limited experience of inspection and testing (the Certificate in Fundamental Inspection, Testing and Initial Verification – 2392-10 is intended for this purpose) Candidates who achieve this qualification may progress to the Certificate in Design, Erection and Verification of Electrical Installations (2391-20) For design and initial verification there is a seperate specific course in design. Again however, to reiterate, these courses and qualifications only equip you with the technical knowledge, competence is much more than that. HTH

Posted By Paul Skyrme My understanding is as follows: NICEIC is a company registration scheme, it assesses the technical competence of key personnel who are in control of the electrical installation work undertaken by the company on an annual basis (at the moment). I know a little bit about this scheme as our company has gone through the assessment process as it is one of our areas of business. The NICEIC, are as I understand it a subsidiary of the Electrical Safety Council. ECA is a trade membership for electrical contracting companies, again a company based system. I am not as familiar with the ECA, however, they technically vet businesses and assess them also. JIB is a business association (ECA) / trade union (UNITE) cooperation to ensure minimum standards of employment for workers. There are several other "schemes" most have a more limited scope than the ECA/NICEIC in their assessment at the moment. SELECT or EC certification / NAPIT / BSI for example. Again the assessment of the company is for competence, qualifications, quality of workmanship etc. The company can be a sole trader, in which case for example with the NICEIC the individual would have been assessed, or for a large organisation then only certain individuals would be assessed. However, as I understand the systems, these should be key personnel in control of the electrical work undertaken by the company as a whole. The individual electricians employed to do installation work would not necessarily be "fully" conversant with the 17th or inspection & testing etc. as they would be working under the direction of one who is. However, the supervisor should be and would be assessed as such. Please note this my understanding only.