Posted By James Putman Hello All, I wondered if anyone is aware of where I can find a good discussion concerning the above incident online (as I'm sure there have been many). I wondered if people would be prepared to offer there views concerning the fire safety measures which should be installed within such blocks, i.e. older high rise blocks served by a single common stair. I am of the opinion that a communal fire alarm system would not be practical, and may actually result in the fire and resuce service being obstructed when attempting to resuce people. I am more in favour of recommending sprinkler systems covering the common areas, however I expect that it will be difficult to convince local authorities to include such measures within their budgets and may be subject to abuse. I would also be interested to hear opinions on the use of plastic window frames (which were recently installed in the building) and how significant they affected the rate of fire spread? Which materials would you suggest that these are replaced with? Any input would be appreciated. Many Thanks, James Putman

Posted By Paul Skyrme James, Fire is not really an area of my speciality, but a few things sprung immediately to mind from an outsiders point of view. Also I am not familiar with the incident you mention. I like sprinklers, used to get a lot of overtime maintaining them years ago! Yes they are subject to vandalism and abuse, but you can get air filled types like a Fire Brigade dry riser. Window frames, aluminium does not burn. Flame retardant and low smoke and fume polymers (LSF) as per electrical cables are available. Surely compartmentalisation as in fire doors would be a good idea? Structural integrity of the building has to be maintained, was this compromised by low cost repairs or modifications? Refuges? Possibly again likely to be vandalised or become used for unsavoury acts? Fire alarms are useful, but, even the best are prone to false alarms faults and vandalism. Keeps Engineers, technicians and trades people in work! Perhaps advising people what to do could help? I don't know how the incident started. Could that have been avoided, was it due to unauthorised (read unsafe) electrical modifications, or those to a gas system, was it arson? Could CCTV have helped? There that is probably enough from me as you are almost certainly thinking that this is rubbish, but I hope this helps?

Posted By martinw Oops http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=18421 sorry Paul Martin

Posted By Messy Shaw Do not expect any results from the investigation to be published before next year. With an inquest and no doubt several legal battles ahead, it's unlikely that the fire brigade will produce more than a summary of findings before next spring. In any case, they are always careful not to upset the Coroner whose job it is to find the causes of death. In the meanwhile lessons that could be learned will have to wait. Not even a public inquiry would speed things up, in fact it may actually slow the process down - although perhaps one is required bearing in mind the tens of thousands of people that live in these blocks and rely on systems that might prove not to have worked. With the Bloody Sunday Inquiry still dragging on 11 years after it started and at a cost of £400 million(!!). So you can see why such inquiries are no unpopular with the Govt. So I reckon there's little chance of the whole picture (including building regs, the RRO and fire service procedures)ever being considered by one agency and coming out in one document.

Posted By Sheila EJ Keogh Hi James, would suggest you await the outcome of the investigation that's underway.