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Posted By sezm2105
Hi,
I am trying to persuade my HR dept not to bring the Fire Warden Training inhouse- its all about cost cutting and the like. However the previous course, ran by the fire service received such great feedback and gave them great skills such as practical experience of fire and the use of fire extingushers that we cannot give them I really looking forward to making the case.
The problem is HR don't know the difference or the Why behind why I want the fire wardens to go on this particular training. Any tips or links or even evidence that this type of training is much more effective than in house training conducted in a board room by the red cross would be greatly appreciated.we are a young company so don't have any stats or feedback forms from training. This is due to be changed with this next course.
Any help or hints and tips would be greatly appreciated.
sarah
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Posted By water67.
Hi, LA.. We do our own fire training and also get good feedback.. whilst we do not set up real fires we do demonstrate how to use extinguishers.. however our general view is that staff would only attempt to put out a fire in very limited circumstances we concentrate on prevention and effective evacuation.. Just because a trainer wears a uniform does not mean others can not provide adequate training..and alas things is tight anything we can do in house we do..need, like everyone else, to try save money.
guess i support your HR..of course they will have to provide you with appropriate training to make you competent to do the training. look on it as development!!
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Posted By Andy F
Hi Sarah
Regarding the training of your fire wardens.
Regardless of whether this is completed in house or by external organisations such as the fire service, the level of training for competence should meet the current National Occupational Standards(NOS) for fire safety ( Units FSA0 – FSA3).
Unfortunately many fire services themselves do not train fire wardens to these standards and most external training companies do not know that they even exist!
I do have the current Units detailed above (although they are at present being reviewed/revised) electronically if your HR department needs a copy. My own company had been utilising these for many years to ensure that our training meets the required standards.
When I lead the team that wrote the NEBOSH Level 3 Fire cert I made sure that we used the NOS and I recommend that all training in fire safety is based on such standards, the fire service themselves have to use them to train their own staff.
Regards
Andy Furness
(Chair IOSH Fire Risk Management Group)
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Posted By Messy Shaw
Andy, I am aware of your company and your professional status within the fire safety industry - indeed, we have spoken in the past. As a result I would not argue with you about the value of high quality training - something you & your company are experts on.
But just a point of order:- You say that training should be to NOS levels, which infers - or may suggest to some- that FW training must be to these standards to be deemed sufficient by enforcement authorities.
Whilst I agree that NOS standards are an indicator of quality training, the only statutory requirement remains that staff are trained to satisfy Article 21 of the RR(FS)O 2005.
Apologies if I am splitting hairs, but I think it is important to distinguish between what must be done (to satisfy legislation) and what should be done (to reach a quality benchmark)
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Posted By Stephen.Jones
Andy F,
In response to your posting, i am reviewing Fire Warden training and wondered if i can have a copy of the NOS for Fire Safety to look at?
Many Thanks
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Posted By Andy F
Hi Stephen
I will send by covering email - no problem
regards
Andy
Messy
The standards set are to ensure that the level of training meets the needs and the competencies required, which is why they are set - if not perhaps this is why some of those appointed cannot undertake their role effectively.
As you know my standards are high, my training staff operate to them that why we get repeat business
when people are trained they know what they have to do - can you imagine a fire warden or marshal course that does not include a practical exercise in evacuation??
what a nonsense !! this is what they are most likely going to have to acheive
A bit like first aid I suppose, what no recovery position and no bandaging?
Andy
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Posted By N Smith
Andy F
Could you send me a copy of the NOS for fire safety please?
Thanks
Neil
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Posted By sezm2105
Hi all,
Thanks for all your comments.
Personal development as a trainer would be wonderful, but again depends upon the standard of both the trainer and the course.
I also hope that the enforcement authorities would of course provide training to the correct standard.
Andy, I would be most interested in a copy of those course notes,if that is still possible?
Thanks,
Sarah
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Posted By Andy F
Hi N and Sarah
sent NOS to your email addresses
Sarah
unfortunately although the NOS are out there fire & rescue service tend only to use them as reference for their own staff.
We provide training to many fire services ourselves and from our experience, when they train 'outside bodies' they tend to forget the NOS and concentrate on making a memorable day by letting loose delegates with a fire extinguishers(which is what most people remember)on a 'real fire'.
When I was working in the fire service (as the Commercial and Industrial Training Unit Manager for a time), that was what I remember most delegate feedback was on
cheers
Andy
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Posted By shaun mckeever
So just to reiterate Messy's comments, the NOS provide a good benchmark but are not a legal requirements wrt to fire warden training. I think it is important that readers are not misled. There are many excellent trainers out there several of which will not be aware of the NOS.
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