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Posted By Andrew_V
We have just had some new drivers attend an off-site FLT training course. The trainer has suggested that our drivers need to attend a gas conversion course because our FLT is LPG powered and they were trained on an electric FLT.
We can control the LPG cylinder changing elements through limiting this to a select few (trained) operatives.
My question is: Is it necessary to do a conversion course or is this just a sales pitch?
Answers welcome.
Andrew.
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Posted By Stefan Daunt
Hi Andrew,
this sound very much like a sales pitch, they are being trained on the operation of the FLT, a propane operates the same as an electric. So if you also get a diesel FLT do they have to go onto a course to drive that? They will I suspect just need in house training on whatever fuel filling method is employed.
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Posted By Phil Rose
Andrew - I suggest 'sales pitch' rather than anything else. Your drivers do need to know about the various implications of gas powered machines, such as manual handling, gas connections, storage, actions in the event of a leak etc. I don't think this warrants additional 'significant' conversion training though.
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Posted By Peter Zunda
Conversion training is (usually) for changing between different categories of lift truck, counterbalanced to side loader for example, rather than means of propulsion.
It would seem rather remiss of the trainer not to check your needs before providing the training.
You’ll also need to check that any site specific requirements are also covered.
Drop me a line and I can let you have a copy of some FLT training notes I have covering LPG refuelling.
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Posted By Dennis c Reynolds
A conversion course is probably over the top familiarisation training would probably be wise. The issue here is that on an electric trucks and some engine trucks there is just an accelerator and brake peddles. On some engines trucks you also have an inching pedal to give extra control when loading vehicles etc. To complicate matters some manufactures have their own little extra. An example of this is that on many Toyota engine trucks the accelerator has to be depressed to activate the inching pedal.
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Posted By andy.c.
Agree, conversion training is not required as you are not changing the type of truck and i presume they are both in the same capacity range.
What you do need is specific job training paraphrase of the guidance is, Knowledge of operating principles and controls, attachments or where the controls differ to the ones trained on. Specific job training should be provided by a competent instructor.
have you got a competent instructor on site?
Why did your training provider ignore the fact that LPG was used on site (He/she must have known hence the sales pitch) and not cover the changing of cylinders during basic training, i bet he didn't cover battery care and maintenance either when he new it wouldn't be needed?
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Posted By jayjay
Gents,
It's not a sales pitch ! If you've been trained on an electric counterbalance you're training does not cover you to operate an LPG/Diesel truck. Both have different modes of operation i.e. one has an internal combustion engine and the other has electric batteries. Both have different pre-use check associated with them.Both are used in different environment too i.e external and internal. When you undertake training there are 3 catagories, which are as follows:
1 basic skills
2 Specific on the job training
3 familiarisation
If you look at the HSE prosecutions website several years ago there was company that was prosecuted because the FLT operative was not familiarised with the vehicle provided and he hadn't informed the company of what type of vehicle he had been trained on.Hence he was involved in an accident.
Regards, JJ
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Posted By andy.c.
JJ
Have to disagree, Basic training for a front lift truck is defined by the industrial truck groups and is by capacity and irrespective of motive power.
Specific job training needs to be conducted by a competent instructor and can be combined with basic training tailored to the employers specific needs.
Familiarisation and last part of training can be conducted on the job and by a competent person I:E a supervisor.
What is clear is that additional training (specific, by a competent instructor) is required to ensure the competence of the new operators, it may be argued that the OP should have made his requirements clear to the training provider but for me the sales pitch comes in when the training provider sends the newly qualified operators back to the company knowing that additional training is needed.
Andy
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Posted By jayjay
Andy,
So why did the HSE prosecute then ? Unless you know something they don't.
Regards, JJ
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Posted By andy.c.
JJ
I am not aware of the case you mention, but you state that the prosecution was for not providing familiarisation training, this is the last part of the three parts to the training and is conducted by the employer on the job with the kit he/she will be using in the course of their role.
The point i disagreed with is that basic training (part 1)needs to be conducted for the same type and weight of truck if it has different motive power.
However in the case you quote it sounds like this is the part missed in specific and familiarisation and exactly the position the OP finds himself in now
Hope this clarifies my point
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Posted By jayjay
Andrew,
The person in question joined the company and presented his FLT certification, they didn't check as to what type of truck he'd been trained on. His training was for an electric truck, however they only had LPG/diesel FLT's. He then had an accident and when it went to court they were prosecuted for not providing information,instruction and training on that type of vehicle i.e. LPG/diesel. I remember the case as i was an FLT instructor at the time. If you send me your email i'll try and look it up and forward it to you.
Regards, JJ
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Posted By andy.c.
Jay
I thought it was my mother replying when i saw my Sunday name, i would love to read the case, if you get hold of it can you mail to the address on IOSH file.
interestingly i am due to sit my re-reg in Sept, after doing it three times before it can get a bit monotonous so this case may help to spice up the discussions on the three stages of training.
Cheers
Andy
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Posted By jayjay
Don't talk to your mother like that :-)
Sorry Andy !! Have you got a mobile number you can email me ?
Regards, JJ
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