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Posted By Steven McCallum
Good morning all,
A query regarding hot water provision. One of my clients, a children's day care nursery, has a broken water heater, the part for it will not be with them till Monday and they are without hot water until then.
What they are asking is, is it legally accepatble for them to be without hot water for a certain time given their line of business.
They provide food and have a kitchen; I would say no, and that they would have to do everything reasonable to supply hot water and if that's not possible till Monday then they should consider closing till then.
Does anyone have any thoughts or could refer me to specific legislation/guidance?
Many thanks
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Posted By Coshh Assessor
Can the required amount of hot water be provided from kettles?
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Posted By Heather Collins
Is it practical for them to simply shut the kitchen until the hot water is back on?
Presumably they can still boil a kettle for making hot drinks or sterilising anything that needs it? (not sure how this applies as you don't say the ages of the children)
Alcohol hand washes to satisfy the hygiene needs?
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Posted By Bob Thompson CMIOSH
don't forget the need for a good supply of hot running water to enable effective washing and drying of hands for infection control purposes. Kettles will not be suitable for this.
Bob
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Posted By seanie
i would have thought that hygiene was of paramount importance especially with young children.
how would the staff or children wash their hands in the toilets?
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Posted By Bob Thompson CMIOSH
sorry only just read the previouse post, I would not depend on alcohol gel/ wipes to satisfy hygiene needs they may be ok for killing some bacteria but will not Kill virus spores, these can only be removed by washing.
Bob
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Posted By Steven McCallum
Thanks people, :@)
The client is making provisions until then, boiling water for sterilising/dishwashiung etc. Also, sterilised handwashing products.
They just did a risk assessment and will monitor the situation until Monday.
I would say they are doing everything reasonable.
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Posted By martinw
They are, but the Education (School Premises) Regulations 1999 say:
Water supplies
22. - (1) A school shall have a wholesome supply of water for domestic purposes including a supply of drinking water.
(2) Water closets and urinals shall have an adequate supply of cold water and washbasins, sinks (including deep sinks), baths and showers shall have an adequate supply of hot and cold water.
(3) The temperature of hot water supplies to baths and showers shall not exceed 43°C.
So they are carrying out all reasonable tasks in the meantime but are still at risk of being formally ticked off, especially if washbasins and sinks do not have hot water by Monday - notice the word SHALL in subsection(2).
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Posted By Coshh Assessor
But why couldn't hottish water be provided in containers, filled from boiled water mixed with cold, to pour into the sink?
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Posted By martinw
It could, with the provision of thermometers to ensure that none of the water is > 43 degrees. For all washbasins at all times in each room? Unlikely to be enough staff, especially in rooms with older children where the staff to child ratio is lower, to be able to do that: just impractical. Also would mean hefting kettles full of hot water around, which is unsafe in the situation, or hot water poured into a central tub then transported to sinks all around the building. Again, creating risks all over the place.
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Posted By Chris Packham
From a purely dermatological viewpoint the provision of hot water for hand washing is irrelevant. Hands should only ever be washed in water that is no more than lukewarm, as hot water can result in damage to the lamellar layer in the skin, and thus in a reduction in the skin's barrier properties that takes several hours to recover.
The concept that in some way hot water contributes to prevention of cross infection is not valid. Water temperature would have to be far higher than the skin could tolerate before there is any effect on micro-organisms.
Alcohol sanitisers are effective, and the modern ones that are properly buffered do not result in skin damage. However, they are ineffective where skin is contaminated with organic matter, so in the environment described hand washing will still be essential.
Modern liquid skin cleansers will work effectively with cold water.
Chris
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Posted By martinw
Chris, out of interest, what are the implications for the info on your post regarding pre-school children? Is there a difference between cleaning agents that nursery children are allowed to use on their hands etc compared to older children in terms of absorption etc? I suppose I am asking if their skins change etc.
I am only asking because my daughter is at nursery and really would like to give best information should the same situation present itself at her nursery and they decided to stay open.
Wouldn't ask but you are guruesque in this area...
ta in advance
Martin
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Posted By Chris Packham
Martin
In principle the same rules will apply to all children. The principle rules for good skin care are simple. However, a full dissertation on this is really beyond the scope of this forum. If you care to drop me an e-mail I will happily respond in some depth.
Chris
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