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Posted By riskybizz
I am currently working as Health and safety officer within the construction sector.
Due to the economic climate i have to make decisions very carefully.....
Here's my dilemma, my company have a contract with a Building contractor, my site visit indicates the project may not have been notified, there is no F10 displayed, the PC asked me "what is an F10" ?
The site is in poor shape health and safety wise, with guard rails missing, no fire extinguishers, no first aid, the list goes on and on....
I have spoken to the PC but all his answers were "comedy" replies..
So? Do i notify the HSE?
All comments welcomed...
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Posted By Crim
I assume you are working for a Sub contractor?
Check out your duties as a contractor in CDM, they include asking the other duty holders if they are aware of their duties under CDM regs.
Is there a CDM-C? Is there a Client? Both have duties to notify if relevant.
How did your employer get the work? Were they informed through a pre construction plan?
etc. etc. etc.
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Posted By riskybizz
We're a sub-contractor on the site.
I am directly employed by that company.
I understand the Pc and client are the same person.
Personally i would withdraw labour from the site until he meets his requirements..
That wouldn't make me very popular..
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Posted By Crim
I would not withdraw as that would incur costs to your employer, possible losing you your position?
Check the requirements for notification against the actual project, then, if notifiable see if a CDM-C has been appointed.
Remember that just because a project has been notified it does not necessarily make it safer.
You should keep a close eye on your employees to ensure their safety, if anything looks dodgy then take them away and look for a safer alternative. You have the right to discuss H&S with the PC and the Client.
If you take an aggressive stance then that will only fuel the flames, it would be best to be calm and approach things in a professional manner.
As far as you and your role are concerned if you are uncomfortable discuss things with your employer, if still not happy then resign. Don't be part of bad practice just to maintain empoyment.
I have just withdrawn my services for a client, construction, who are failing in their duties, it is not the first time I have walked away from a company as I am not being listened to.
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Posted By FAH
Part of what Crim said is especially valid - check out the real position first thouroughly. The only unacceptable option is to do nothing at all.
Then, record every observation & perceived discrepancy between the requirements of CDM and the reality encountered and send it via an independantly auditable route to your boss.
Ensure that you keep copies somewhere safe [for you to retrieve later in your defence].
If you're still not satisfied that CDM is being satisfactorily complied with, you now have to decide what you particular actions should be. You could inform the HSE or LA [as appropriate]; you could remove yourself from the target area; you could do both.
Good luck!
Frank Hallett
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Posted By clairel
In the first instance are you sure the job is notifiable?
Obviously there are safety concerns, which any one of us would obviously state should be addressed asap.
However, I will play devils advocate here from a business perspective. Am I right that you are saying that it is your company that has employed the PC? The same PC that doesn't know what an F10 is and has not put in place basic H&S measures? If I have understood that correctly then your company (and therefore potentially you?) have also breached CDM by failing to employ a competent PC. By notifying the HSE you could actually be incriminating yourselves.
Now obviously the first priority is saving lives but in this instance could you not also be putting your own job at risk?
If indeed you are the client and you have employed this PC then wouldn't you be better advised to use your position (as client) to try and get the correct measures put in place now but also ensure in future that only competent contractors are employed?
Just food for thought.
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Posted By clairel
ahhh....just seen your second post further down the list...you are the sub-contractor!
In which case you are not in the position to notify the HSE of the project. You are in the position to make an anonymous complaint to the HSE however, who will be duty bound to investigate that complaint (and keep it anonymous).
That could have knock on consequences though.
Would the PC/ client know it was you that had complained (ie have you made your feelings known already?)
If the HSE stop work will that affect your company's finanaces significantly enough to put your own job at risk?
It's easy to say report them but that will have conseqences. Only you can make that decision between potentially your conscience and your job.
Unfortunately no one said life was easy.
Best of luck with yor decision.
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Posted By Liz Maw
I think you have a duty to inform the client/PC of any H&S discrepancies you have informed on site including the issue re: notification. And then make sure that your workforce are adequately protected in the area they are working. Hopefully your job in the whole scheme of things is small and you can get off site quickly.
Good luck.
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
There are often difficult decisions and choices to make in this industry. Some are based on morals and others on legal requirements. However, the IOSH Code of Conduct for practitioners should be referred to and invoked if applicable. Thereby keeping a clean conscience.
Ray
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Posted By gerry d
If the PC and Client are a SME then it will be a difficult choice for you to make as there may not be anyone above the comedian you are dealing with, but I would follow my conscience. If its a larger organisation could you consider going higher `up the tree` as it were? Have you discussed the matter with your own line manager to see if they can provide leverage/ support/ guidance?
Good luck.
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Posted By riskybizz
I made a further visit to site today to carry out an inspection in relation to the PC's duties. I will let the Pc have a copy of my report and see if that may change his view.
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Posted By Crim
The problem with that is you do not work for the PC so how will how will he react to your report?
Keep us posted and best of luck.
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Posted By Robert K Lewis
Whatever you do it is not your job to do the Project Notification. The Client and CDMC and remain in the firing line over that with the PC close behind.
Your job is to ensure your employees are safely working and their specific workplace is safe. Any accidents on site will be down to the PC as long as your methods of work are safe. I did not say this but the HSE do acccept anonymous telephone cals.
Bob
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Bob
With regards to your second paragraph, if the safety practitioner is aware that the site is poorly managed and therefore unsafe, he cannot put his guys to work based on the fact that site safety is down to the PC. Okay something of a dilemma. However it is incumbent for the subbie to raise safety concerns to the PC/Client or alternatively not allow his guys to work on the site until it is safely managed.
Ray
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Posted By Phil Rose
A couple of things strike me. Notification under CDM is just that - notification - regardless of whether the project is notifiable or not or whether it has actually been notified or not, the CDM regs apply in as far as their requirements for 'on the ground' health and safety. i.e. those things that were incorporated within CDM from the 'construction welfare regs'.
Secondly, your main responsibility is to the employees of the employer that you work for and I think that this is where you should be directing your concerns - to your own employer.
I also am not sure how the PC would take the report either, I would guess that if their H&S arrangements are as inadequate as you suggest, then they are unlikely to take a lot of notice of it.
Hopefully, if you make your employer aware of the situation then they will make a decision to either challenge the PC or consider withdrawing from the contract if not then you might want to consider a word in the ear of the local HSE.
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