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Posted By Lee Mac
Hi All
I have a few posers for those of you involved in construction which I would like to hear the majority's opinions on and any alternative solutions
Q1) Considering the WAHR requirements and the use of small hop ups- what are peoples opinions on the use of this equipment on construction sites for example when fixing plasterboard sheets or provide a possible alternative.
Q2) Another area I would like people's opinion on is on the use of stilts when applying skim to ceilings- the problem I have is training- I cannot find any certified training- which then leads on to the question where do the men learn to use these (no circus jokes pls)
Q3) Regarding the application of skim to ceilings- what has been the majority's experience in the use of PPE in regards to this work activity which needs to be considered in conjunction with the use of Stilts.
I look forward to hearing opinions on these.
Regards
Lee
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Posted By graeme12345
Come on all you Graduates / CMIOSH's stick your necks out and give Lee and answer to his question, after all it's you lot that are given first crack at any jobs that come up that us mere TECHies are obviuosly not qualified for !
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Posted By Clive Lowery
Lee,
Not an easy set of questions to answer but here goes;
1. We only allow Hop Ups when all other avenues are exhausted in our hierarchy of controls. They must however be Industrial Grade, not what you buy at the local DIY shop and have the BS number appended. The platform must not be more than 300mm and we carry out a task specific RA.
2. With regard to stilts I have also been unable to source a training provider, however it is pretty obvious within a few minutes whether someone is going to be able to use stilts or not.
3. PPE - Plasterers in particular are very adverse to wearing any form of PPE whether they are on stilts or not. Usually and only in agreement with the PC and again following a separate RA we allow them to remove their Head Protection and/or provide bump caps as long as they are the only trades working in a room and there is no risk of being struck on the head.
Use of stilts also brings other issues to the fore such as cables, holes and general rubbish on site.
Unfortunately many PC's tend to have a blinkered attitude to stilts and hop ups and ban them both regardless, without actually reviewing the controls to be put in place.
Hope this helps a bit
Regards
Clive
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Posted By Barrie (Badger) Etter
In attempting to answer Lee's question as a NON CONSTRUCTION safety adviser for -
Q1) Considering the WAHR requirements and the use of small hop ups- what are peoples opinions on the use of this equipment on construction sites for example when fixing plasterboard sheets or provide a possible alternative.
Please clarify size of hop-ups and design, ie, stool, small step ladder etc.
For -
Q2) Another area I would like people's opinion on is on the use of stilts when applying skim to ceilings- the problem I have is training- I cannot find any certified training- which then leads on to the question where do the men learn to use these (no circus jokes pls).
The last time I was on a construction site (my CSCS card expires end 2009)stilts were an acceptable appendage. As to where they learn to walk with same its a matter of balance and something (probably)learnt as a child. Suggest that you post this question separately for the training bit to reach a wider audience.
On -
Q3) Regarding the application of skim to ceilings- what has been the majority's experience in the use of PPE in regards to this work activity which needs to be considered in conjunction with the use of Stilts.
As ever risk assess before PPE. Having done that and found particles aiming for the eyes consider safety glasses / goggles or a full face shield.
With regards to -
'Come on all you Graduates / CMIOSH's stick your necks out and give Lee an answer to his question, after all it's you lot that are given first crack at any jobs that come up that us mere TECHies are obviously not qualified for !' from graeme12345,
Sir, may I suggest if you wish to progress, instead of carping on at what you're not 'allowed to do' and get out there and do it BEFORE someone asks a Grad to do it. As ever always acknowledging your own short comings as I have at the beginning of my reply.
Badger
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Posted By Patrick Canning
Lee
I had the same thing regarding stilts in a past life. I allowed the stilts to be used only after a risk assessment was carried out on this, no PPE was needed as the plasterers were working in a room on their own, they all proved that they could operate the stilts OK. I allowed them to use these then one day i got a phone call from the Foreman, a plasterer had just fallen out the window. No joke. So ensure the you include closing windows in the risk assessment & method statement.
Patrick.
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Posted By Lee Mac
@Patrick
Thanks for the tip regarding the windows- do you mind me asking what size was the window.
@ Badger
A1) The hop up I am referring to is like a small trestle about two foot high- a lot of plasteboarder use them for access to ceiling areas.
A2)I appreciate your sentiments regarding the posting under training however IMHO it is a working at height matter and it is references as part of Q3, but thanks.
A4)Again I appreciate your sentiments re RA, however you can RA all day long but in my experience of construction sites (>20years) I have yet to see plasterer's wearing PPE to protect their eyes when applying skim to ceilings. I am merely looking for possible solutions which others have found easy to implement. I acknowledge this may not be clear in my initial posting.
Regards
Lee
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Posted By Crim
Hop ups: I recently attended a meeting with HSE inspector who recommended using Popups, these are small MEWP (scissor lifts) that are big enough for one man and his tools. They just go up and down, no problem. They can be seen in most if not all hire shop catalogues.
Hop ups are a thing of the past now with all the new fangled gadgets available.
Stilts: I first came accross stilts some years ago and assisted the user with his risk assessment. He was a ceiling fixer/plasterer and we found stilts did away with other equipment i.e. scaffold towers and ladders. if used correctly in clear areas they are as safe as anything else.
I like the window guidance! ha ha.
PPE: In my experience plastereres do not like to wear hard hats when operating overhead, and if there is no-one else above them the risk assessment could lead to hats not being required.
I would be more concerned with eye protection, and RPE when mixing. Gloves for both and don't forget the washing facilities need to be adequate in the welfare area.
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Posted By Lee Mac
Crim
The mobile units would be a great wee idea however I would imagine space constraints inside houses may be a factor and I am not sure how this equipment is brought to 1st and 2st floors.
Although if you do not foresee such a problem let me know the supplier as we visited our local supplier and went on his website to no avail.
Eye protection is the problem- have you had plasterers ever wear any form of such protection when skimming the ceiling taking into consideration they are on stilts.
Thanks
L
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Posted By Crim
Lee, podium steps may be the answer but I would think you have already considered them?
I didn't realise you had confined space constraints. There are lots of portable access equipment out there that can be dismantled, carried piecemeal fashion and then erected at the point of work.
If you are the safety "adviser" and have some "clout" you could try enforcing the safer alternatives on the plasterers, including the use of eye protection.
Failing that you could recommend to the employer not to use that contractor in future.
Remember the Main or Principal Contractor is always responsible.
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Posted By Patrick Canning
Lee
Just your normal 500 X 1200 UPVC window.
Patrick.
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Posted By Lee Mac
Crim
I am looking for a bit of assistance from guys who are faced with the same situation.
I have never seen a plasterer wear eye protection in all my life when they are applying skim to a ceiling whilst working from stilts.
If there are guys out there who have I would appreciate a few pointers how they positively encouraged (by that I don't mean threaten to kick off site- this is the lowest common denominator (ie. enforcement rather than encouragement) in my book).
I have been thinking of bringing a few plasterers who I know who have suffered to long term effects of not wearing eye protection to carry out a talk with the men.
However I am open to any other successful alternatives out there.
Cheers
Lee
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Lee
Working at height is, and I suspect always will be, contentious, largely to the ambiguity of the WAH Regs.
1) For low level work our chaps use podiums, mobile towers and step ladders as a rule. Sometimes we use internal scaffolding but that depends on the task.
2)We have not allowed people to use stilts thus far. With the various options for working at height I do not see the need for stilts and it is dubious whether it can be considered a SSoW.
3)Mandatory PPE on our sites include light eye protection, even for plasterers.
Graeme, have you an axe to grind re CMIOSH/Tech IOSH? A good prompt, but surely it is not necessary to judge people on their professional status.
Ray
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