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Propane - Vehicle signage
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#1 Posted : 09 October 2009 14:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brian W Weston It is proposed for a small grouop of staff to carry out a task which will involve the transportation of small quantity of LPG (1 litre maximum). I would welcome guidance on the requirements for hazard signage for such a quantity and guidance when using road tunnels such as Dartford Crossing, Blackwall Tunnel etc. Regards
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#2 Posted : 09 October 2009 15:58:00(UTC)
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#3 Posted : 09 October 2009 16:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Zunda Brian, more info here; http://www.calor.co.uk/l...ety/transport/index.html In general, dangerous goods are prohibited from using the major river tunnels!
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#4 Posted : 09 October 2009 18:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pez Hargreaves There would be no requirement for signage or any vehicle markings the amounts are to small. The amounts carried would be 333kg before any vehicle markings are required.
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#5 Posted : 11 October 2009 15:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Assuming hemispherical propagation of fireball in the back of the van, the extent of fire ball from 1kg lpg would be 1.2 m radius.
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#6 Posted : 11 October 2009 15:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Lasting 15 seconds
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#7 Posted : 11 October 2009 16:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton you are carrying under smallload exemptions (ADR 1.1.3.6.) No signage Driver training (action in event of emergency)(ADR 1.3.2) 2Kg dry powder PFE (ADR 8.1.4.2) Correct stowage (ADR 7.5.7) Should not be an issue wrt tunnels as release and ignition would not extend beyond confines of vehicle.
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#8 Posted : 11 October 2009 17:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Training and awareness is the key here I think. But I think you should be looking at the need and frequency of the operation. One off or short duration OK, but if long term project get a contractor to supply and leave the problem to them? Dave
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#9 Posted : 11 October 2009 17:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Dave Its 1 kg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#10 Posted : 11 October 2009 17:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Your bbq cylinder is 13 kg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#11 Posted : 11 October 2009 17:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Beg your pardon? who mentioned BBQ? Not me! Dave
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#12 Posted : 11 October 2009 17:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Just noticed it's 1 litre (approx .5 kg not 1 kg)hazard reduced by 50%
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#13 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Is that an apology?
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#14 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Context Dave Do you sub contract the supply of a 13 kg cylinder for a gas heater or BBQ???? I dont think so. We are looking at the scenario of someone carrying 0.5 kg (approx) LPG (1 Litre) About the same as a camping gas supply, not the greatest risk in the world.
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#15 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Doubt it, I dont do apologies
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#16 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H No - people who believe they are as good as you think you are will never admit to being wrong. Even if apparent to everyone else. But I sincerely hope your fall is not too painful. Dave
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#17 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Darren - where do you get the 13kg cylinder from!!
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#18 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton 13.4 Kg size of the cylinder purchased for use with my BBQ and heater. Whole issue demonstrates the perception of H&S, when examining advocating R/A, restriction of travel through tunnels and getting a contractor to deliver 1 litre (0,5 kg) LPG though. By the way, don't worry about my fall, have an effective safety net LOL
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#19 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Would you also advocate the contracted delivery of 1 litre of petrol?????
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#20 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton By the way Dave, Do tell me where I am incorrect
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#21 Posted : 11 October 2009 18:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Thought not
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#22 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Darren - you state "13.4 Kg size of the cylinder purchased for use with my BBQ and heater. Whole issue demonstrates the perception of H&S, when examining advocating R/A, restriction of travel through tunnels and getting a contractor to deliver 1 litre (0,5 kg) LPG though" Great stuff - YOUR perception - I did not mention at any time a container of any size May I suggest the biggest problem H&S has is that people perceive differently - and often wrongly. And if you look who the employer is, there is the potential for large amounts to transport - therefore manage the situation rather that take it in dribs and drabs. Kindest Regards Dave
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#23 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Dave Whom the carrier is or is not is immaterial as is the question of perception. The post stated "It is proposed for a small group of staff to carry out a task which will involve the transportation of small quantity of LPG (1 litre maximum)" "I Would welcome guidance on the requirements for hazard signage for such a quantity and guidance when using road tunnels" In the main INCLUDING YOUR REPLY, there was a disproportionate response in relation to the control measures required or necessary. No matter what you imagine, it is not necessary to suggest delivery of 1 litre/ (0.5 kg) of gas to point of use. Nonsense
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#24 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Agreed - So why did you compare your canister of 13 kgs against the delivery of 1 litre or 0.5 kg? Speak about blowing things out of proportion. Dave
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#25 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton LOL x 10^ 246 Context Dave, context and proportionality of response. You would take less care in delivery of 13 Kg than you would of 0.5 kg LPG. No doubt you will attempt to argue to the contrary.
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#26 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Not even going to bother!
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#27 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pez Hargreaves Blimey, poor bloke only wanted to know if he needed to mark the vehicle & if there was restrictions through road tunnels. Interesting stuff though
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#28 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Agreed Pez - but others maybe need to be aware of width restrictions in tunnels lol. Dave
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#29 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Pez Could not agree more but consider responses advising R/A, restriction of travel through tunnels and contracted delivery of 0.5 kg cylinders Public site available to non members and non professionals so not unexpected.
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#30 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Dave hardly require a wide load to deliver 0.5 kg propane unbelievable
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#31 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Sorry mods! Dave
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#32 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton By the way Instantaneous release and delayed ignition of 0.5 kg LPG at hemispherical propagation results in a fireball of 0.06 m radius fireball lasting 0.07 seconds. What a hazard, maybe we should request police outriders
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#33 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton apology accepted Dave
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#34 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton That's 6 cm or 2.3 inches to you Dave
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#35 Posted : 11 October 2009 19:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton will let you calculate the overpressure
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#36 Posted : 11 October 2009 20:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By D H Darren - LOL Dave
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#37 Posted : 11 October 2009 20:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton me too
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#38 Posted : 11 October 2009 20:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By D. Hilton Risk assessments I've s**t em
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#39 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Web team This is now getting out of hand, The thread is now locked. Webteam
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#40 Posted : 12 October 2009 12:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Web team Thread now locked. Webteam
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