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Posted By EmmaS
Is there an risk issue with having and using Automated External Defibrilator's (i.e. if used wrongly it could do more harm than good and create a personal injury liability)?
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Posted By A Campbell
Emma,
Highly unlikely as automatic defib machines will not allow a person to shock unless the type of arrhythmia has been detected.
Manual - could be overridden but only used in hospitals
Semi - Automatic can be overridden but you would need a special card to slot into the machine
Training of the individual regarding use, possible contact with metal or water etc will already be undertaken.
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Posted By Phil
I agree with all of the above. Please note that the issue of using of a defib where the cas is on metal is also not an issue. Guidance on the change was issued last year, I will try and dig it out.
Moves are also afoot to change the rules on training. As so many are deployed in public places, and they are so inherently safe and easy to use, it will be acceptable to use one without training.
Phil
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Posted By Adam Worth
HI Phil can you send me that guidance - a long standing argument from the days of chemical plant checker plate floors.
St John advise - do not shock a casualty on metal floor!
My basic physics always worked out low risk to casualty - burns to exit points? Very low risk to first aider.
Also always told to watch out for
Metal jewelry
pacemakers
medical patches (apparently these can explode??)
Wet casualty
Hairy casualty (Though nurse friend disagrees)
Explosive atmospheres.
People touching casualty when shock administered.
All that aside if I would rather someone had a go than let me die! In 99% of situations the machine prompts are more than adequate!
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Posted By Phil
Found it!
Zoll (a defib manufacturer) did some testing and proved that there are no ill effects from using an AED on a wet person, or a person on a metal surface. This is due to the fact that almost all of the current goes from pad to pad, and very little is bypassed. I have the data and report if anyone wants it, obviously with copy right i cant put it on here!
Phil
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Posted By Barrie (Badger) Etter
Watched 'Mythbusters' a while back and they totally blew all myths away regarding burns from jewellry etc. You'd have to connect all those items direct into the pads circuits before gaining any adverse reaction from the machine.
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Posted By Adam Worth
I remember seeing a clip from America where they were zapping a chicken and recording currents around it..
No idea where to find it now tho... I have argued with trainers on several of the points raised but alas they don't speak physics :)
This is only an issue when working for a profesional body as I have to obey their guidance :(
Oh well, happy days.
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Posted By Clive James
Our members and all the members of the public that we have trained, have been using AED's for a number of years and to my knowledge, an AED has never shocked a casualty incorrectly.
The modern AED will analyse the rythym and will only charge for shocking the casualty if an appropriate one is identified.
The chance of a casualty surviving a sudden cardiac arrest are greatly increased if an AED is available, especially if the first shock can be delivered within two minutes of the arrest, in this case the chance of survival is up to 80%. Ideally every workplace would have one. The talk though the AED gives will guide someone through in an emergency situation, but we recommend training for all users as using the machine in an emergency will be a high pressure situation.
Clive James
Training Manager
St John Ambulance
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Posted By EmmaS
Thanks very much for all your replies. Great help.
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