Posted By craig660


Hello everyone,


Just a quick question,


what level of competency/qualifications would you need to have to provide basic training to a company such as:

Manual handling

Abrasive wheels

Brush cutters and strimmers



At the moment i have my NEBOSH general, Diploma and in July will have my Bsc(hons) in hand s.

Im looking to do the CIEH train the trainer soon.


Would this be enough to provide the training and also provide certificates to show they have carried them out ?


Thanks

Posted By craig660


Thank you for your response Andrew,



I am not looking to deliver Iosh courses or CIEH just yet.


But my company hires external trainers and all they do is deliver the training and then provide is with a certificate with just their company name stating what training they have carried out, when, expiry etc.
These certs have no affiliation to IOSH or anyone else.


Would i be able to provide these trainings and certificates withe my level of competence/qualification ?


Thanks

Posted By craig660


Seems like im talking to myself here lol


Anyway if anyone does read this, i pulled this off the city and guild site:

Q. Can I start delivering training either on my own or for my own company after qualifying with the C&G 7303?
A. You can function as a trainer in any capacity that your clients will pay for but in order to deliver any officially recognised qualifications, such as Health & Safety etc., you or your company will need to be approved, as required by the appropriate awarding body, e.g. the Heath & Safety Executive.



So does this mean i will be able to provide basic training such as manual handling and abrasive wheels, brush cutters and strimmers and provide my own certificate to them.


From my understanding i can but i just cant obviously provide IOSH accredited certificated to people.


I'm trying to save my company on paying for these certificates off people who have no accreditation.

Posted By Pete Longworth
Craig

Whoever said that in my opinion is talking rubbish. I have just completed the CIEH course and found it very useful. It teaches you how to plan a training session looking at the the 4 learning styles of reflectors, theorists, activists and pragmatists, and how to incorporate visual, audio and kinaesthetic (practical aids that can be handled)learning aids and is based on what is called the 4MAT method. It can be used to plan training in any area not just H&S.

These methods are very useful when you are planning to deliver your own in-house training.
External courses such as IOSH managing safely have their own set structure, so if you wanted to deliver those you would have to meet the requirements of IOSH and use their structured approach, but from the point of view of internal training it is up to you to design and deliver the course. CIEH cert will help you to plan the course but you will obviously need the background knowledge and experience to decide on the content.

Posted By andrew morris
Hi Craig,

I only come on once a day, so sorry I haven't picked up on your other comments.

H&S law is not prescriptive so there is no definitive answer - even about who runs training (except in some circumstances, e.g. first aid & FLTs). What the ACoPs and guidance says is that you must be competant to provide the training - and that includes knowledge, ability and experience (among lots of other things). Only you and the law courts know what you are actually competant to train, but your employer must also make that decision.

It sounds like you probably have the general safety knowledge - but the advantage of train the trainer courses or other similar ones is that they show you how to write a course, present it as well as yourself and keep people interested.

I have been working in h&s for some time and have an arms length of quals, but would not dream of training on something "technical" such as bushcutters - because I have no experience with them - I'd rather get an expert in.

If I wanted to train other people on using bushcutters, etc - I would have taken a professional trainers certificate (with whoever), undertaken an advanced course in the use of the bushcutters (so you know more than you need to) and have experience of using them.

Same goes for manual handling, etc.

As a member of the CIEH I have to say that they do run H&S courses and legally they are acceptable. But there are lots of other orgs out there too who are better for specific issues - BOHS for asbestos, etc.

I'm a big fan of accredited courses - because it gives you a degree of quality control. but you can run any course in house that you want to - even without a qualification, but it just might not satisfy your companies RA.

Sorry its a bit waffly!

Posted By abromhead
Hi Craig

Just to add to the list of options and acronyms. I run the City & Guilds Manual Handling Train the Trainer course which is designed to provide a practical approach to the issue of manual handling training(www.abromhead.co.uk)

The course seeks to provide knowledge, materials, advice and practice to be able to design and deliver effective manual handling training.

I agree with the responses you have received already - the legislation is far from prescriptive with regard to what you need to demonstrate competence. However, if you have attended a course with a nationall recognised badge of certification and have passed the associated course assessments, this should stand you in good stead.

However,attending courses yourself is of course only the starting point of the challenge. The acid test is whether you are able to deliver competent and effective training in your workplace. Good quality trainer packs will greatly help you out in this respect - reducing the need to reinvent the wheel.

I'd suggest it is also worth looking into who would actually be doing the training on any course you might attend. There are good and bad trainers - and you don't want to spend 2 to 5 days of your life being preached to by a humourless academic! Furthermore, when does any certification expire and is it still valid if you change employer (some are not).

Hope this helps. The following guide, specifically on choosing a Manual Handling Train the Trainer course may also be of interest: www.abromhead.co.uk/Training%20questions.htm

Best wishes
Alistair

Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
Hi

Speaking to CIEH today, and they are phasing their PTC out to be replaced by another 3 day course, but this can be topped up for the pttls, kttls and dttls stuff with a 2 day bolt on. So I guess then its the same kind of package as the CG 7407?

Does that sound right folks?

Regards

Linda

Posted By SBH
I did the PTTLS 9 months ago and it is a teaching qualification recognised by educational establishments eg I would be accepted into the fold to provide training (part time) in health and safety in a college at night school, whilst someone with a Train the Trainer qualification would n,t.SIMPLES.

SBH