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#1 Posted : 13 October 2009 14:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By paulw71 With the introduction of the new fit note replacing the old sick note, has anyone looked at the implications for health and safety issues. From what I have heard about the scheme it involves doctors advising employers on what tasks the individual in question is capable of performing therefore returning them to work sooner than they would otherwise be able. The employer is supposed to try and accommodate the individual in question by assigning them tasks that they can safely cope with and, I would assume suitably altering the work environment to make it more suitable. Many GPs are reluctant to make this judgement saying it would be more in keeping with the role of a occupational Health Professional. I would be interested to hear any views or issues my fellow H&S colleagues think this will raise once implemented
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#2 Posted : 13 October 2009 15:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian.Durand Hi Paul, Can you please let me know where you heard about this, as I'm currently going through this process with my wife and her employer. If you can pm me a link if you have one that would be great as I need to carry out a bit of research before I speak to her company's OH dept again. Many Thanks Adrian
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#3 Posted : 13 October 2009 15:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By paulw71 Adrian I dont have your email and to be honest I dont think I could really send you anything specific. All I know is from what I have read from a few medical, Gov and HR websites. If you would care to elaborate on your wifes situation I am sure there are a lot of people on here who would be only too pleased to offer assistance or advice. Kind regards Paul
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#4 Posted : 13 October 2009 15:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian.Durand Hi Paul, Many Thanks for the prompt response. I'll have a look around google later for any available information. With regards to my current problems with my wife's employer, I'll probably post later with the problems I'm encountering to see if, as you suggest, anyone can offer any advice. Many Thanks Adrian
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#5 Posted : 13 October 2009 16:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Kevin Drum Paul I had this problem in my last job where operators were basically telling GP's what they could and couldn't do at work and the GP would write to us detailing processes they should avoid. Like you say, when this happened I would refer to Occ health as they had an better understanding of the processes involved and could make a judgement on the activities to avoid. Without this intervention we would have opened the floodgates for certain operators getting GP lines to avoid certain tasks, which they were employed to do. Think that makes me sound a bit cynical and untrusting, not qualities the other thread is looking for.
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#6 Posted : 13 October 2009 19:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Richards At the end of the day most GPs will avoid it like the plague, except those with a speciality in OccH. Finding something for someone to do when they have pneumonia should exercise a lot of people. Likewise broken limbs. The entire exercise in one of reducing the sickness benefit. Already being practiced by the gov in the form of the "employment support allowance medical assessment"....where a "medical professional" (ie: not a doctor....that would be Primary Medical Professional) assesses the individuals ability to work. There have been cases where individuals with severe bronchitis have been told they are fit for all types of work (and one where a guy with both legs amputated below the knee was told the same...but since the OccH company are paid less for giving someone 15 points or more (not fit for work) than for giving less than 15, it is not a surprise.
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#7 Posted : 13 October 2009 19:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve M Granger .... and there have been literally millions where perfectly able (and sometimes willing) employees are not allowed to contribute to their recovery or their employment contract because the EL is invalidated. Try a search somewhere around here (IOSH website) for rehabilitation - some good words were written and a certain President is working hard to reduce national debt and empower employees and employers to get on with life .... This should help a rtw risk assessment so I think we should all invite the local GP in for some free training on what H&S@W is all about. ..... Ps I think we'll find IOSH have a cunning plan ...... Sickness free Steve
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#8 Posted : 14 October 2009 08:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian.Durand Hi All, Further to my earlier post, I'll explain the sceanrio (and sorry for it being an essay).. My wife has had back problems for the last 16 years.It has flared up occasisonally, but just over 8 weeks ago it went totally and on seeing her GP she was signed off sick. After the follow-up appointment (2 weeks later) she was signed off again, and had an urgent referral to physiotherapy. After the second sick note expired her employer referred her casae to the OH dept (the employer is a large supermarket chain. The first telephone call from the OH department obtained the required information, and the OH advisor immeidately stated that her recommendation would be for my wife to work on the checkouts. This decision was made without any medical evidence from the GP, and also the OH advisor ignored the fact that my wife is actually a Checkout Team Leader, and this role may well have been a contriobutory factor to the problem. After my wife last saw the doctor, and was signed off for another 2 weeks, another call was received fro the OH advisor, and she asked why the doctor had signed her off again, and that in her opinion she should be back at work. What needs to be noted was at this point a request had been made to the GP for information, the form had been completed and sent back in the post, but the OH department had NOT received the form back. There seems to be a problem in that the OH advisor did not want to listen to the information she was given, as in order to get to the store my wife has to drive as it is approx 4 miles away, but she has had to walk with the aid of a walking stick and has not driven since she was signed off as it was too painful. I also have to state (in the Company's defence) that the store itself has been great, with my wife's immediate managers and also the HR manager stating that she should not be back until she is totally fit for work and feels ready to return to work. Can I ask if this is the normal procedure within OH departments? How can the OH advisor make a decision without any clinical evidence or supporting documentation? Also, where would we stand from a legal point of view if the company insist that she returns to work, and the problem re-appears and is aggrevated by work. Your thoughts on this would be most appreciated. Many Thanks Adrian
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