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nelly13  
#1 Posted : 06 November 2009 10:07:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
nelly13

As anyone got any views on this topic. We engage the services of sub-contractors to carry out work on our behalf. 99% of their annual work is for use. We supply them with corporate work clothing, should we supply them with all other neccessary PPE or should they supply their own? Legally they are not employed by use they're self employed & the PPE regs state you must supply PPE to all employees free of charge. Therefore legally where do we stand if we don't supply PPE? As anyone else had this conversion with their senior management team.
David Bannister  
#2 Posted : 06 November 2009 10:33:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Nelly, regardless of any legal duties, if your subcontractor has to provide the required PPE they are likely to incorporate this in to their charging mechanism. Either way you end up paying. Who has done the risk assessment that indicates PPE is required and who has decided on the specification of PPE to go for? The answers to those questions should indicate who should be supplying.
wardy  
#3 Posted : 06 November 2009 11:09:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wardy

Simple, they supply their own PPE as required by their and possibly your RA's conclusions. If not they dont come on to site.
UVSAR  
#4 Posted : 06 November 2009 13:20:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
UVSAR

Given how much of their time they spend working for you, I'd be a little worried HMRC (and HSE) won't believe they're self-employed. It's a continual argument as to where the line is drawn, but if the Powers That Be think you're using subbies just to save money on stuff like holiday pay, yet practically their daily life is the same as an employee, they'll go after you with a large and lumpy stick. The problem is, if you provide them with PPE you're adding evidence to their argument. If you make them provide it and allow them to charge you for the costs, it has the same effect safety-wise but looks less like an admission. The only thing you can't then do is specify what brands of PPE they turn up with, or have your company logo stamped on their hat.
Ben  
#5 Posted : 06 November 2009 16:02:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Ben

It is a clearly the responsibility of the employer. In line with UVSAR' response, the question you need to be asking is who would be deemed the employer given they only work for you and you provide uniforms.
Willy Nally  
#6 Posted : 06 November 2009 16:14:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Willy Nally

As a sub-contractor they are an employee with their own Safety Policy, Method Statement, Insurance, Training etc. You may have examined these documents of theirs and it would more than likely state that they as an employee will provide it in any case the RA tells them to do so. If you have a contract agreement stating that all PPE / WAH equipment etc.. is to be provided by them may also work in your direction also. You could also counter charge them and this will change their attitudes to obtaining 'FREE' PPE from you. Overall, if it is not down in writing on their Policy or your mutual contract the onus falls back on you. Good luck
rich_bannister  
#7 Posted : 08 November 2009 10:10:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rich_bannister

OK, so what about this situation: I am an agency worker working for a large multinational. 100% of my work time is spent with this large multinational, they provide me with all work clothes and PPE. I submit my timesheet at the end of the month to the agency and my salary is paid to me from the agency. I (personally) have a contract with the agency which refers to me as the "employee". Where would I stand in terms of liability? i.e. if I had an accident on site which the HSE investigated, would they look to the large multinational as my employer or the agency?
Canopener  
#8 Posted : 08 November 2009 13:26:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

Rich - dare I say, the HSE may 'look' at YOU! The answer to your question, is that the HSE would 'look' at the whole picture and that depending on the arrangements between the 'user' employer and the agency and the circumstances of the accident, it could be one of more of the following, the 'user' employer, the agency, a third party or as I have said at the beginning YOU, who could be found 'liable'.
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