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This will be fun, any thoughts...not that I'm having a party but just interested what other people are doing about this?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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We don't do parties...
Not allowed to return to work after consuming alcohol, and they don't like us partying all afternoon. ;-(
Apparently, broken photocopier glasses are one of the higher risks following a Christmas party... Don't know why. ;-)
A
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Haha, no it is out of hours so I'm assuming there is a few duty of care issues! There are some individuals that EVERY time just drink that little bit too much.
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From the experience we have in our workplace, if its a company christmas party, on or off the premises, you need to be very wary as the company are Vacariously Responsible for each person until they arrive home safely.
i am sure other professionals on this site will give you a more in depth answer.
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Is the company contributing towards it? If its off site and the company isn't contributing imho it would be viewed as private social event, the fact that everyone works for the same employer would be coincidental.
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There is a definite increase in paternity suits following Christmas parties so include that in your risk assessment for employees.
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Sorry to say i disagree with Safety Smurf, whether or not the employer pays anything towards it, is not the issue, if it is a company's christmas party, then they are responsible for each person.
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Hi Sean,
The point I was trying to make was that if me and my collueges decide to go out for a Christmas meal, how is my employer liable? At what point does the company become involved? If the company contributed then it would be an open & shut case but otherwise I'm not so sure.
(this is, of course, purely hypothetical as I'm the H&S Auditor and wouldn't get invited anyway! "Table for one again is it sir?")
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Very strong tendency to agree with safety smurf here,
John
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jwk wrote:Very strong tendency to agree with safety smurf here,
John What, you don't get invited either?
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But surely you HAVE to attend, in case they require any dynamic risk assessments...
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At the risk of moving slightly off topic - Bah Humbug!
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Rank: New forum user
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Hi all
This is my first posting. Notced the topic - very interesting.
This year we are having on like yours safety smurf but there is another one where the company contributes.
I would be interested to see any copies of yrou risk assessments if possible?
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Rank: New forum user
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Hi
We have a christmas party every year. Starts with Christmas dinner with a few bottles of wine then the bar remains open and we do things like pool, darts and a quiz etc. Everyone has the afternoon off to attend but if they decide not to attend they have to actually stay in work.
About 4 years ago we had a member of staff who had an alcohol problem and regularly drank so much that he would pee himself so obviously the staff christmas party was going to be an issue.
I did the relevant risk assessments but...
He vomited in the bathroom, it was cleaned up. He vomited again but by this point the cleaning staff had gone home so we put the toilet out of order and put a sign up directing people to the other toilet.
He ignored the sign fell over on his own sick and broke his wrist. Still managed to stay at the party for another 2 hours though and walk home. Didn't realise he had broken it until the next morning.
He put in an accident claim :(
I now hate christmas parties as I have to sit down and work out what stupid things the next very drunk person will do - just what is reasonably forseeable? I have a very good imagination so can imagine them doing all sorts of things do I risk assess all of them?? It could be quite a lenghty document if I did!!!! LOL!
I also can't enjoy myself as I have to "police" it and even if I didn't I would still have the hour drive home so couldn't exactly have a drink. No wonder we get thought of as the H&S bores!
Regards
Kath
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Hi Kath,
I sincererly hope that the claim was unsuccessful!
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A couple of years ago someone on this forum gave out a web address for a santa risk assmt, does anyone know the one I mean and would they post it in the forum pls.
Thanks
Badger
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Badger,
if you google it, there are plenty, not sure which you mean but there are some real good ones.
cheers
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This is the issue, what Kath refers to, that there are certain individuals that are a liability, and yes I hope that claim was very un-successful
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In one of our past Christmas parties at a fairly upmarket hotel all paid for by the company, a ruck took place whereupon one guy took issue with a studded wall and decided to repeatedly batter it with an iron. The result was one of the guys he shared the room with eventually brought this "dance routine" to an end, however Iron man received a broken nose. Thankfully no claim ever arose. I think embarrassment was more in Iron Man's mind.
However I spoke with our insurers after the party- they advised that if a Memo/ disclaimer is communicated to all employees prior to the party commencing detailling that the party is a social get together and in no way will the company will be held accountable for employees/ persons actions at the party... etc. etc., our insurer advised that this will remove all liability from the company.
Lee
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We've been ploughing through this subject merrily and nobody (me included) has stopped to think how the employer is liable at all. Employers and employees we may be but at the christmas party we are not 'At Work' (with the exception of those who do have their party at work).
For the most part it will be away from the place of work, outside of business hours (and therefore unpaid), attendence will be voluntary, the decision to consume alcohol will the choice of the individual.
Frankly I think we could save ourselves time and possibly get some cred back by stating that it doesn't need risk assessing from a H&S law point of view (others may still wish to do it to protect company reputation. The staff at a site in one our sister companies have been banned from a local hotel for their revelry. Not good PR)
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but what about vicarious liability?? Surely the event is connected with work. Sexual harassment claims etc can still be brought against the employer even if it is a party out of the company??
Maybe I am wrong?!
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Rank: New forum user
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Johnny, i am here!
And i totally agree with you, i posted my thoughts at the beginning of this thread.
I work for a large government department and our managers are well aware of their reponsibilities on christmas nights out, they know that they are vicariously liable for the safety of their staff.
thanks for backing me up on this subject.
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There have certainly been cases where the actions of employees initially considered to be 'out of work' e.g. functions such as 'works' Christmas Parties have led to employers being found liable for their behaviour, if I can fiind a case I will post.
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I'm sorry but in no way is the company responsible for making sure people get home safely afterwards, if this was the case there would be no christmas parties simply from the cost of taxi's to get everyone home.
Provided you have booked a reputable establishment your responsibility ends.
Things such as sexual harrasment are very different and should not be confused with safety responsibility.
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Rank: Super forum user
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OK, so suppose I invite one of my colleagues to my house for Xmas drinks, not in work hours. Is my employer vicariously liable for our H&S? If so, I would be flabbergasted (and would need very strong evidence to believe it). If not, which variables need changing and by how much before liability sets in? Drinks with a colleague out of work hours but not in my house? Drinks with more than one work colleague out of work hours but in my house? Calling it a party rather than just drinks? I don't see a straightforward lliability, vicarious or otherwise here at all,
John
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Is this not one of those urban myths that the HR department or management brings up so that they don't have to organise a party?
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I totally understand all your points of view, but i can only go on what happens in my work place.
Maybe they are going over the top, but in essence i feel they are correct, and covering all bases
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There are two distinct scenarios being discussed in this thread; one is covered by ACAS guidance, which is a party organised by the employer - this involves DoC, vicarious liability and the rest. A group of workmates meeting for drinks (or setting fire to weasels or however you celebrate Xmas) is no concern of the employer and the employer has no liability,
John
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In answer to the original question - my firm are making a small contribution to employees own arranged departmental Xmas get togethers i.e. to re-imburse cost of meals/taxi etc but not drinks. This is probably a sensible approach as I agree there would be vicarious liability but the company is in no way encouraging drunkeness and is being reasonably in helping us to enjoy Xmas.
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Against my better judgement I will comment on some of the absurd comments re Xmas parties. Ye Gods, no wonder 'elf and safety has such a poor reputation. I will put my last dollar on the fact that any party, drinks etc outside of working hours and not paid for by the company will have no liability for the employer. Even if the employer was to provide a small sum I believe the same would apply. Only events during working hours and provided by the employer may incur liability for staff etc, assuming someone got hurt and it could be shown the employer owed a duty or was negligent - highly unlikey.
What's more, if someone asked me to do a RA for a xmas party I would resign forthwith!
Merry Xmas.
ps Where is the spellchucker - again.
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Ray, we need to meet up 'cause I'd like to buy you a drink (you will, of course, have to sign a disclaimer first)! ;-)
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Phil, thanks for highlighting those cases, however as you are no doubt aware they are not related to health and safety isssues, but the problematic world of employment law. Not really sure there is a relevance in the context of the discussion topic.
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Absolutely, just thought it was of interest to note that there have been some ET and potential ET cases that revolve around an employers potential liability in a an 'outside of the workplace'/Christmas party sort of scenario, not entirely dissimilar to what was being discussed.
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Not wishing to labour the point - but surely the case law that Phil kindly sourced suggests that if there is some employer liability for "employment law" issues then this must extend in some small way to "accidents".
Just going back to my earlier point that the employer at least puts a reasonable control in place - if only calling a sensible time on the "free bar" if you are lucky enough to have one.
That said as Safety Manager at my last company we enjoyed many an off site Xmas do with free bar. Certainly no talk of risk assessments or vicarious liability - just having a good time - although the MD sometimes had a worried look - especially when his Safety Manager was dancing on the table.
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Seriously now, the director is now in a panic, wants to know if a risk assessment should be done on the hotel which will be hosting the xmas party (a room hosting various company parties) and should he request H&S info from the hotel. Is there anything (in writing, officially) that states an employers liabilty for these functions or best practice advice. Have seen the ACAS list,,which doesnt really give a clear answer. Need to be able to show him something to calm him down, so we can all have a bit of fun.
Surely arranging a party at a reputable hotel with overnight accomodation would show that the company was acting responsibly
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What happened to employees responsibility to keeping themselves safe and not put other at risk by their actions. Surely a person getting so drunk or fighting would come under this, and if away from work the hotel ect would take some responsibility for safety within its premises as far as slips trip falls, furniture, food.
We look at things like food allergies so this can be sorted before hand and measures taken, making sure we have first aid on site as well things like that, and as for sexual harassment surely this would become a normal HR situation and if that severe the police would be involved.
However we do provide taxi's or hotel rooms for people coming from a distance.
Risk assessment
no alcohol to be comsumed
No fun to be had
No christmas kisses
not sure I want to go now. LOL
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