Rank: Super forum user
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A primary school adapted a disabled persons facility three years ago and provided equipment including wash basin for a particular child with physical disability who at the time was five years of age.
The child is now eight years old and has outgrown the height of the basin, this means leaning forward to use the wash basin resulting in some backpain. A reassessment was carried out yesterday at the requesst of the child's parents.
The "main finding" was that the wash basin was too low but there is probably not enough money in the kitty to alter the height or replace with a more suitable wash hand basin so an alternative was suggested - to use hand wipes instead of hand washing.
Question: is this an acceptable solution as nobody else in the school will be required to use hand wipes thus singling out the disabled person?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Crim
Surely there are other and existing sinks of a different height for use by other students.
Why not alter the height of the taps or source an extendible mixer type tap or similar. In reality the sink/basin is for catching and retaining water, hands can be washed under the tap?
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Rank: Super forum user
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bleve wrote:
Crim
Surely there are other and existing sinks of a different height for use by other students.
Why not alter the height of the taps or source an extendible mixer type tap or similar. In reality the sink/basin is for catching and retaining water, hands can be washed under the tap?
An interesting option, but the basin is inside the disabled person's facility and it would be undesirable to have to go elsewhere to wash hands.
Another point is that there is a carer with the disabled person who also needs to use the wash hand basin. she is an adult so it would be better to raise the basin, I think. If you just raise the height of the taps you would get lots of water splashing about.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I notice a lot of places have steps these days to allow kids to get to the sink. Not sure if this would solve the problem - depends on the disability I guess. Not very forward thinking by the designers in the first place mind.
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Rank: Super forum user
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grim72 wrote:I notice a lot of places have steps these days to allow kids to get to the sink. Not sure if this would solve the problem - depends on the disability I guess. Not very forward thinking by the designers in the first place mind.
A step no use in this instance as the basin is too low.
The set up was designed to accomodate the child who has now grown. Needs a redisign now, my question is really about the DDA regs. and should one child who is disabled be treated differently to those able bodied children?
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Rank: Super forum user
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I guess the fact that he gets his own washing facilities already would suggest he is already treated differently - in that respect I'm not sure what difference using wipes would be (assuming they do exactly the same job as a sink). Have you consulted with the child's parents - why not ask their opinion about using wipes? Another option would be to lower the floor level - no idea if this would be less expensive than a new sink however.
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Rank: Forum user
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Lower the floor?!!!!!! It is Friday I suppose!
ATEOTD it will be much cheaper and simpler to get a plumber to lift the sink by however many inches is required!! It is not a big job!
Either that or fit a second standard height sink alongside to prevent this issue cropping up in the future!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Dazzling Puddock wrote:Lower the floor?!!!!!! It is Friday I suppose!
ATEOTD it will be much cheaper and simpler to get a plumber to lift the sink by however many inches is required!! It is not a big job!
Either that or fit a second standard height sink alongside to prevent this issue cropping up in the future!
I am the child's parent and have suggested the option of providing a second basin alongside, there is the space, but the indication is that the purse is empty.
It is my daughter and the room was refurbished to accommodate her needs a few years ago, but children grow.
There are "rise and fall" basins on the market but that again requires money.
My daughter needs a separate room for changing etc. as she is disabled, I just want to know if the use of hand wipes, which I personnaly do not like, would be classed as exclusion for disabled people
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Rank: Super forum user
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ChrisBurns wrote: I just want to know if the use of hand wipes, which I personnaly do not like, would be classed as exclusion for disabled people
I doubt if hand wipes would be an 'exclusion', as they are a 'means to an end', but I do understand your concerns.
Whilst the joke about lowering the floor was one of those 'Friday things' - would the provision of a stool. so your daughter could sit at the 'correct height' for the basin, solve the problem?
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Rank: Forum user
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Surely over the long term hand wipes are going to work out rather expensive and what if someone forgets to order them? Also what are the effects of prolonged usage eg dry skin, rash etc
If the LA cant find the money to make the adaptations I'd be somewhat concerned and thinking about taking the matter further.
Are there any local plumbers that would be willing to assist in this matter?
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Rank: Forum user
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I personnaly think the school should stump up the small amount of money needed to raise the sink so that soap and hot water can be used. I believe this would be reasonable under the circumstances and the percieved level of budget a primary school would have. As such reasonable adjustments under DDA.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Speaking entirely personally, I would not accept hand wipes as a viable alternative to soap and water. What about washing the face, for instance? I also suspect that hand wipes merely smear the dirt around, albeit they are probably medicated to kill the bugs.
This arrangement would not meet the requirements of the Workplace Regulations (although clearly your daughter is not at work so they don't apply. However, they do give an insight into the standards that are expected).
There is one further possiblity that I can think of that would be better than hand wipes - a small table, a jug and a bowl. This is what was used in the Victorian era before hot and cold running water were commonplace. Admittedly this creates more work for the carer.
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Rank: Super forum user
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it is wrong to say that there is not enough £1 - This type of statement is becoming the norm as I am sure that schools do have £ its just the case of managing where it is put e.g. stop the fancy marketing etc and get back to basics
generally wipes are not the answer and over long term situations can cause skin etc problems additionally they can make the person seem different where washing hands etc makes the person the same as everybody else
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Rank: Super forum user
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Kieran, thanks for the email, I think I understand why not allowed here?
I understand your point but cannot agree, we as parents are continually fighting battles on behalf of our daughter, from birth up until now at eight years young there is always someone putting a barrier in front of her/us and if we do not fight them as they come up we would be inundated with pressures.
We have been successful at times, and not so on other occasions but she is worth fighting for.
What would you or anyone else do if a simple act like hand washing caused you backpain because the basin is too low?
I agree the school/LEA should have the money to spend on this item, surely it cannot cost too much to raise a wall mounted sink? However if they do nothing and my daughter suffers the LEA will face the consequences - strong words needed! (I'm already geared up for the fight!)
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Rank: Guest
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Wipes are not the option, they don't kill all bugs, and are mainly for 'inherently clean' hands.
Apply pressure to the LEA to release funds from their DDA budget unless of course the school is grant maintained, if church funded apply pressure their, they have a statutory obligation to make reasonable adjustments to comply with DDA, IMHO raising a basin has to be considered reasonable. Be a polite but persistant pain in their proverbial, and also contact the authorities disability officer.... theyy all have them, usually in the corporate services type department, local councillors can also be useful in applying pressure. If it was broken they would have to replace it so funds must be there it's just geting access to them as usual....
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Rank: Forum user
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should this not have been dealt with three years ago?
Surley the growing of a child is not a surprise? (It generally happens), when deciding to fit a lower sink three years agot this should have been considered and an adjustable height sink should have been fitted.
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Rank: Forum user
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There is no point being 'professional' unless we are pragmatic - perhaps we should adopt a holistic approach to problem solving...Yes i know authority money can be thin, but Im confident a low-cost job slots nicely within DDA intent, moral issues adding weight. As a parent, I would lean on this excersising all my soft skills along the way. I agree entirely that wipes are inappropriate for the reasons cited.
Practically is there scope to raise the sink?
If having done so would this be a satisfactory outcome?
If the answer to these two questions is yes and the School/Council continue to resist the DDA parameters, then i would seek permission to have the job done myself. The central issue is your daughter not the regs.
As a HS professional, a parent and a grandparent I hope I have galvanised action and not caused offense.
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