I found out yesterday from one of the managers that there had been a successful claim last year after someone slipped on snow/ice in one of or community centre car parks (this is the first I have heard of it!). Looking at our records this is the first accident involving slipping on ice/snow in 6 years. However, as usual now the weather has turned cold I have been asked to provide a procedure for gritting. Would anyone be willing to share their procedure with me please.

Hi Inchoa, PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy of mine

As I understand it the issue lies with who is responsible for the car park. If you go to a retail park with a joint car park to shop in La-di-da Ltd, slip in the car park and try to sue La-di-da Ltd it will propably fail on point one on the three point test (duty of care owed). If you go to the next town where La-di-da Ltd have a seperate business unit who's car park is obviously theirs alone you will succeed (depending on wether La-di-da Ltd owns the site or leases it, in which case it will be dependent on the details of the lease. If not specified the duty of care will fall on the occupier). The don't grit because you'll accept liability arguement was ill informed and has been disproven. Expecting people to be aware of the issue is a non-starter.

Thanks to safetysmurf and other respondents, much appreciated.

Clukes, Check your inbox

This isn't a criticism of the person who posted the thread or anyone else who has posted. Just thought I'd say how sad this sort of thing makes me. I'm in the personal responsibility camp. It's cold, it could be icy so you watch your step and if you fall well it's a shame but that's life. Live, learn, take more care next time. I'm not going to sue a pub owner if I get sunburnt sitting in his beer garden, I'm not going to sue the council if I aquaplane in my car when there are puddles on the road after it's been raining and I'm not going to sue a shop if I slip on ice. A mate was telling me about a lady who skidded her car on ice last year on a country road nesr here. Crashed the car. Sued the council for not gritting the road. We both thought that was wrong. She should have driven according to the conditions. Am I the only one on the forum who thinks like this?? I take H&S seriously (well it's my job isn't it) but when it comes to the natural elements out there I think we all need to take responsibility for ourseleves. Is this becuase I was raised in the countryside and spend a lot of time in remote countryside? Is this is a townsperson mentality or is that an unfair assumption? I'm sure I'll get a barrage of abuse for giving my opinion on this (no change there) but there you go. Makes me sad that's all.

Totally agree that people should take more responsibility for their surroundings. I too was brought up to respect what was going on around me an be responsible for my own actions. Example: as a child I had a bad habt of walking backwards and listening to the adults. On more than one occasion I bumped in to a lamp post and injured myself. Sympathy? Never. Clip on the lug (ear) and told to watch where i was going!!!!

Claire, whilst you are right in so far as you can not eliminate all risks, and personal responsibility if a significant factor, depending on the circumstances, type of organisation etc, doing nothing may not wash in court. Don’t get me wrong I am all for the most practical solution but sometimes that is to do what is considered reasonable in the circumstances. So if you are a Housing Association with a scheme for the elderly with a communal building, would it not be reasonable to grit the main walkway which will also help protect your own staff?

Just common sense, which is what H&S should be about!

I see you are drifting into a different world where things are ideal!! It would be nice. However, back to the real world, i agree with your comments and that is why as part of the procedure we inform tenants at this time of year (via a bulletin) that whilst we will endeavour to grit dedicated walkways, care should be taken as in extreme conditions it may refreeze, along with a reminder to wear sensible shoes, not to go out unless necessary etc. So yes you make sense and we have covered those areas you mention, which in my mind leaves it to them with the responsibility

Safety Smurf, Would you be kind enough to let me have a copy of your procedure also. Regards, Derek.

Hi Derek, PM me your email address and return it as an attachment.

Hmmm? Wonder whether you could sue your footwear manufacturer for not stating; "Not suitable for use in inclement weather"! On the side of the box in big bold contrasting letters! ;-)

On a similar vein can anyone give me some advice on the following scenario. My mother-in-law slipped and fell heavily on ice on an area (road/ pathway) leading to/ from her house. When we asked the LA why this had not been gritted we were told that this is private land and not within the LA`s scope for gritting. On enquiring further about this the council representative informed us that the road/ pathway in question is of the `block` paving type and not conventional `tarmac` and that the local factor may or may not be responsible for it, but that the LA most certainly was not. I should add that although this is a parking area it also is a bona fide street (with full address and postal code) albeit a cul-de-sac. The street is covered with `tarmac` along part if its length and the council have intimated that they will grit this bit when `they get round to it`. I know this strictly isn`t work related but will inform me better other areas of my (working) life where this may be relevant. Sorry about all the brackets, by the way.

Gerry - I am wondering what sort of advice you are after? Could it be, can my MIL make a claim against someone? While the highways authority has some responsibility for the gritting of the highways etc, if you expect any LA to grit every road, street, path, car park etc then I fear that you are going to be sadly disappointed. Similarly if you think that the courts would expect the same, again, I don't think so. The highways agencies have a limited responsibility, limited funds, will do what is reasonable, and they do this by prioritising their gritting to where it is most needed and would have the most effect.

Just been round to the our maintenance team, had a quick chat and they already had the bags of grit/salt in van and started gritting yards/pathways/carparks before main workforce arrive. Did we need a written procedure for this? No of course not - just good communication, a common sense approach and a pair of eyes to see what we could do to try and reduce the risk of our employees, visitors slipping due to the snow/ice on the ground. I was much more worried about coming into work this morning and observing the poor behaviour of many drivers in what were very hazardous conditions. To sum up - in weather like this I feel much safer when at work than driving my car to get to work!!