Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Jack Althorpe  
#1 Posted : 06 January 2010 11:15:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jack Althorpe

Happy new year to you all..............
We have many employees trained on several different production machines, and for each machine they are trained on they each sign a training document (sometimes several pages long). Our training files now consist of several filing cabinets and is growing quickly.
My question to you guys is this:
Could I scan these documents and keep them all electronically, and then dispose of the paper versions?
I am not sure if this would stand up in court as proof of training following an accident. Any advise on this would be appriciated
Alex Petrie  
#2 Posted : 06 January 2010 11:33:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

I would think that electronic forms would be accepted in court. Any defence of training would be backed up by induction records, and the 'time served' by the employee in the company. The question in court I'd imagine would be not so much "what training was received by the employee?", but "was this training suitable and sufficient?"

If you're still unsure it may be worth keeping paper copies of the training records which cover the past three years, with the remainder scanned in.

What does anyone else think?
penshaw  
#3 Posted : 06 January 2010 12:05:38(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

Sorry but getting the employees to sign is worthless, in my view. They could just say "oh I signed it because the boss told me too.......didn't understand....etc".

A much better way is to have validation sheets (ie questionaires) which would demonstrate that they understood the training. For practical stuff a record of being observed by a competent person doing the job correctly would be usefull, I believe.

Hope this helps.
Alex Petrie  
#4 Posted : 06 January 2010 12:16:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

I'm not sure I fully agree, Penshaw. If an employee stated they didn't understand, or that they just signed because the boss told them to, the next question must be why they didn't raise this issue, or any other concerns they had regarding their competence levels.

Maybe that would happen in an ideal world?

By questionnaire I assume you mean validation test at the end of the course? Would a one-off observation be adequate? What if the one time the employee is observed is the only time they act in the correct manner?
xRockape  
#5 Posted : 06 January 2010 15:45:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

I agree with Pensure above, a signature on its own does not prove "competance" therefore a test be it written or practical is essentional.

As to your main question, most companies are using electrical copies now a days. These can always be printed if required.

GM
xRockape  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2010 16:45:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

Typo or what!! Spell check?
Claymore  
#7 Posted : 06 January 2010 16:57:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Claymore

Agree Penshaw
I conduct a short "pre test" then a test at the end of the training to demonstrate something has been taken in and there is an understanding of the training.
JM
Jack Althorpe  
#8 Posted : 06 January 2010 16:58:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jack Althorpe

Thanks for your input all
I agree some sort of questionaire on the training forms would be benificial. But again this could be scanned into an electronic format and the paper copies disposed of.
Just trying to free up some valuable space in my office.
Alex Petrie  
#9 Posted : 06 January 2010 17:02:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

If that's the case Jack just give the filing cabinets to a colleague to have in their office...

:)
UVSAR  
#10 Posted : 06 January 2010 17:51:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
UVSAR

Electronic documents (meaning that the original is the electronic version) are accepted by criminal and civil courts across Europe and the USA, provided they can be demonstrably secure against fraud/alteration/etc. - we have several EN and ISO document standards to implement that, though the majority of UK law firms are using ISO-PDF/A. Keeping only a scan of a paper original is permitted with restrictions, depending on the law behind the bit of paper in question (some still refer to words such as "original copy", but not in the H&S sector).

Legally, however, the forms you're talking about have no standing. They don't prove competence, merely that someone signed something because they were told to. The records of attendance (time sheets, forms completed by the instructor, etc.) are what would be drawn upon if there was ever any argument over who was "competent" in what; and again these can be physical or electronic provided they are trustworthy.

If all your several-pages-long document says is "I, Joe Smith, have signed this document" then you can throw the lot away and just keep an Excel spreadsheet of names and dates - their signature is meaningless as they're not attesting to anything by applying it.
David H  
#11 Posted : 06 January 2010 19:40:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David H

Sounds like a lot of training Jack - well done on having a flexible workforce.

But if there was an accident the HSE would be more interested in the last time refresher training was given for the particular machine concerned in the accident.

You need to be sure that if each machine operation is different from the others that there is suitable refresher training in place and recorded.

David
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.