Rank: Super forum user
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IOSHers - what would you suggest?
I am looking into carrying out a risk assessment and reviewing a HS policy statement for an historical annual event whichs attracts around 5000 thousand members of the public. The event involves display of fire based and firework activities carried out by around 900 'performers'. The event is held at night in a residential area on main traffic routes which have been closed to vehicles for the duration by relevany authorities. I was wondering what you considered to be the primarly legislation regarding the safe running of the event. The current HS Policy Statement has been based solely on HS legislation however the event is run completely on a voluntary basis therefore as i understand it HS leg cannot be applied if an incident were to occur. Presumablly there could be no criminal charges brought to the event organisers so any lawsuits would have to go through the civil courts. In terms of liability is there any connection to the local authority in terms of planning approval? The event involves much merry making but goes by relatively (serious) incident free. The organisers have been requested to produce an RA which is fine but I can't seem to be able to find out what leg applies - can you help? Remember the event is completely voluntary. No paid contract work is done.
GC
You thoughts would be appreciated.
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi
My understanding is that H&S legislation would still apply regardless of the work being done on a voluntary basis. I think that criminal charges could be brought against the event organisers in the same way that they could be brought against company directors. I have done some event work for a charity and have always equated the board of trustees (unpaid) to directors and treated the voluntary workers as if they were paid staff as far as H&S is concerned.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I agree with the above post, if held in the UK, legislation would apply regardless whether it is a voluntary or non-profit making event. Cannot confirm all the legislation without given it some more thought but certainly the Health and SAfety at Work etc Act 1974 would apply, specifically sections 2,3, and 37.
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Rank: Forum user
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Would the case law from the art event which blew over resulting in a fatality be worth a look? I think it happened in 2007. That might help confirm who the duty holder is and what standard of care they will be held accountable for.
Hope that helps.
A
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Rank: Super forum user
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jeni d wrote:Hi
My understanding is that H&S legislation would still apply regardless of the work being done on a voluntary basis. I think that criminal charges could be brought against the event organisers in the same way that they could be brought against company directors. I have done some event work for a charity and have always equated the board of trustees (unpaid) to directors and treated the voluntary workers as if they were paid staff as far as H&S is concerned. I suspected this would probably be the case but remain to be convinced - There is no 'employer' other than a 'commitee' of fund raisers and the 'performers of acts involving fire' are actually untrained members of the public (around 900). There are no crowd barriers or access / egress points or any way to regulate attendance. The initial event last for around 2 hrs and no welfare facilities are provided to my knowledge(toilets etc) Ray, if as you say HS does apply can you point me in the direction of this source of info for reference purposes? Gary
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Rank: Forum user
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Personally I am not convinced that any health and safety AT WORK legislation could apply to this event. I was going to refer you to a local similar-sounding event, but I think maybe it's the same event. Seaside town, event at the turning of the year......?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Forum user
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks, I'll have a look at the link! Oh and yes it is!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Garfield
The general principle is that HSWA applies to all employers regardless of whether the 'employee' is full, part-time, paid in kind, or not at all. It follows that statutory instruments enacted under HSWA must also apply. Therefore, whether it is a voluntary event or not the organisers in my opinion would be considered as duty holders. That said, there is so little case law on the subject it is hard to reference. Indicating that a prosecution is highly unlikely and only if there was a serious breach. Good news I'm sure.
There is also a 'Duty of Care' which is normally applied to a civil liability but not exclusively, as it also applies to the Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007, in certain prescribed cases as well as gross negligent manslaughter. That is the best I can do at short notice and of course, I'm not a lawyer.
The law is in a constant state of flux and one needs to be careful when quoting it. Anticipating the law, or jurisprudence, needs some careful consideration. For example, I would never have thought the Met Police would have been prosecuted for the death of Charles De Menezes for health and safety offences - I still think it was an abuse of h&s law, but there you go.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Garfield
Is a public event licence required and if so who applied – pin the HSWA tail on them for a start. If you have volunteered to be their agent, well done – but make sure you have PI just in case!
Heaps of gratitude and goodwill may be considered as remuneration in circumstances such as charitable work. Regrettably the supermarkets don’t exchange such tokens so you will have to earn your keep as well.
Presumably the LA knows of the event as it is happening on their land…. (and anyone else if the procession crosses their land as they are an ‘occupier’ and may be considered responsible as well) so there is another (district/city/borough and county organisation responsible for what they do or don’t as the case may be (remembering acts and omissions etc).
I suspect the Police for highway and vehicular management will be involved… and knowing there will be fireworks no doubt the other officers will have a ‘foreseeable’ ear and eye open, so ditto. But at the end of the day it is going to rest on ‘negligence’ which will be the onus on the claimant to prove. All of the above may also be subject to HSWA but of course this is limited to criminal matters – unless it’s to do with… ah… um ….. your RA of course….. ho hum…. have fun.
This is not an 'off putter' - go for it and keep safety sensible, but you would be wise to either be covered by PI or your own Public Liability or get under the umbrella of an employers Public Liability policy by formalising your goodwill. It does not need to be a contract per se (imho), just clarification that you are working for them and liability is not transfered to you.
Steve
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Rank: Super forum user
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Garfield, Do not get too hung up on what laws apply. As has already been pointed out the organiser of any event has a Commmon Law duty towards anyone that attends. You owe all attendees a duty of care, if you breach that duty and they suffer an injury or loss that flows from your breach then you may well be liable to them, could be found liable to the extent that you would have to compensate them. Hence the need for Public Liability insurance. Despite what previous posters have indicated I doubt you would need Professional Indemnity insurance - this protects professionals against a breach of their duty to provide sound advice etc - and PI covers exclude any payment of compensation for personal injury - it only covers financial or economic loss.
And of course, the fact that the organising committee doesn't employ anyone makes no difference - you still need PL cover. Hope this helps Phil
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Rank: Super forum user
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Garfield,
establish what your role is early on, is it h&S co-ordinator if it is meet with as many of the people putting on the event, all those who have a role i.e people running the fire work display etc. and get them to produce the R/A's SSOW etc and ensure that tou are happy with wjat is happening, get them early so that you can share them with the committee or organisers. Meet with the police and any other officials so that you know them and there expectations. If your not happy with something sort it early and be there to advise and guide throughout the whole process.
Good luck it will probibly be a well attended enjoyable day.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Garfield,
are you aware of HSG154 Crowd Safety and HSG195 Event Safety? There are probably other publications.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Steve Granger wrote:Hi Garfield
Is a public event licence required and if so who applied – pin the HSWA tail on them for a start. If you have volunteered to be their agent, well done – but make sure you have PI just in case!
Heaps of gratitude and goodwill may be considered as remuneration in circumstances such as charitable work. Regrettably the supermarkets don’t exchange such tokens so you will have to earn your keep as well.
Presumably the LA knows of the event as it is happening on their land…. (and anyone else if the procession crosses their land as they are an ‘occupier’ and may be considered responsible as well) so there is another (district/city/borough and county organisation responsible for what they do or don’t as the case may be (remembering acts and omissions etc).
I suspect the Police for highway and vehicular management will be involved… and knowing there will be fireworks no doubt the other officers will have a ‘foreseeable’ ear and eye open, so ditto. But at the end of the day it is going to rest on ‘negligence’ which will be the onus on the claimant to prove. All of the above may also be subject to HSWA but of course this is limited to criminal matters – unless it’s to do with… ah… um ….. your RA of course….. ho hum…. have fun.
This is not an 'off putter' - go for it and keep safety sensible, but you would be wise to either be covered by PI or your own Public Liability or get under the umbrella of an employers Public Liability policy by formalising your goodwill. It does not need to be a contract per se (imho), just clarification that you are working for them and liability is not transfered to you.
Steve Yes, I agree that this type of RA must be sensible, after all the event in question has run since 1880 with no serious injuries recorded (emphasis on recorded!) Nevertheless want it to be in alignment with modern RA techniques and relevant HS legislation without inhibiting the fun and freedom of the event. I am actually one of the 'performers' so I am well aware of the hazards involved. I have PL and PI but thanks for the tip. Also working from HSG154 Crowd Safety and HSG195 Event Safety as guidance - Just to clarify to those who know the event, the scope of the RA does not include the 'activities' which can last for upto 48 hrs post main event. Cheers GLC
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Rank: Forum user
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I'm laughing at the thought of attempting to risk assess the "activities" as you put it! Probably more chance of someone suffering "ill-health" due to the "activities" than the fiery event!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Twinklemel wrote:I'm laughing at the thought of attempting to risk assess the "activities" as you put it! Probably more chance of someone suffering "ill-health" due to the "activities" than the fiery event! Spot on Twinklemel! I suspect the sales of 'annadin extra' may significantly rise! PS - I am not connected to the 'annadin'. :)
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Rank: Super forum user
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garfield esq wrote:
PS - I am not connected to the 'annadin'. :)
You might not be connected to Anadin - but I suspect you may become a user ....! Colin
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Rank: New forum user
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you might want to look at HSG 192 Charity and voluntary workers: a guide to health and safety at work
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Rank: Super forum user
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christstac wrote:you might want to look at HSG 192 Charity and voluntary workers: a guide to health and safety at work Thanks for that christstac - i was not aware of this guidance. GLC
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