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andy.c  
#1 Posted : 14 January 2010 11:11:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
andy.c

For many years I have understood that Counterbalance FLT's should not be driven on to the back of curtaian sided trailers and at present our company R/A upholds this view, i did not have any input into the original assessment but have now been asked to assist in the reviewing of this policy.

Can anybody point me in the direction of any guidance, I have had a trawl through the obvious guides and ACOP's but have drawn a blank, any case law involving an accident would also be helpful

The trucks are both fork and clamp attachment

Regards
Andy
fouldsyfoulds  
#2 Posted : 14 January 2010 15:10:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fouldsyfoulds

Hi Andy

Can't point you to any guidance but we have the same policy, just do the risk assessment, a curtain will not stop an FLT, thats enough reason to say no.

Good luck

Fouldsy
Brian Hagyard  
#3 Posted : 14 January 2010 17:58:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Andy

Don’t know if its still available, or if you could locate a second hand copy, but in 2002 the HSE Put out a Driver safety assessment CD-Rom called safe driver safer workplace (MISC482) and FLT’s going through the sides of curtain-siders was one of the issues they highlighted. The software was a little quirky in places and I know we had issues on which PC’s it would and would not run on but it did have some good scenarios on it.

Brian
phargreaves04  
#4 Posted : 14 January 2010 21:17:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
phargreaves04

There is no guidance that says you can't, however as has been mentioned do a risk assessment. The giudance stipulates that trestles should be used to take the weight off the trailer legs, unless of course a tractor unit is attached, additionally, ensure trailer brake and parking brakes are used, wheel chocks if required.
There is going to be times when this is going to be needed for example when working off dock levelers. I would say the risk is not so much in the FLT going through the curtain sides, but "early drive offs" so ensure you have procedures to combat this i.e. handing in vehicle keys taking off the emergency air line etc.
Juan Carlos Arias  
#5 Posted : 15 January 2010 10:19:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Juan Carlos Arias

I personally would not allow FLT's on curtain sided vehicle despite adequate arrangements to prevent lorries driving off. It would be far to risky to rely just on the training of the FLT driver and a minor mistake could be costly. There is a level of risk on boxed lorries too but at least the sides of these ones do decrease the likelihood of a FLT falling through.
phargreaves04  
#6 Posted : 15 January 2010 13:30:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
phargreaves04

Andy,

As i said earlier i can't see the problem, there has been issues regarding loading curtain sided trailers but risks relate more to free standing trailers and the weight on the landing legs.
Put it this way we load unload over 200 trailers a day, and have never had a problem with an FLT going through a curtain side.

Type into google "Risks in loading unloading freestanding trailers" it has some good information you may find useful.



Safety Smurf  
#7 Posted : 15 January 2010 13:39:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

Never had one go over the side but have had one go through the floor!

Loading and unloading trailers in this manner used to be covered in the RTITB basic training course for counterbalance and if memory serves there was a question on it in the multiple choice paper.

That said it was obvioulsy written in different times. One of the common hazards to watch out for was tipping up trailers, a common problem with single axle trailers! An extremely rare beast on Britain's roads today!
johnc  
#8 Posted : 15 January 2010 15:15:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnc

Hi
Some years ago when curtain sided vehicles were becoming more popular the company I worked for looked into this problem. A national company had carried out tests involving tipping a trailer with an FLT against the curtain and there was no problem - the curtain held. We used 'trunker stuffer' FLT's which had a mast that hardly moved but the forks did rise. We successfully used them and there were only two incidents I can remember. One involved an FLT going over the edge protection but the curtain prevented it coming off the vehicle and the other was when the trailer moved when an FLT was entering it and the legs of the trailer collapsed. This was prevented by chocking the trailer wheels to prevent movement.

Take care
John C
MickD  
#9 Posted : 17 May 2018 12:45:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MickD

Originally Posted by: johnc Go to Quoted Post
Hi
Some years ago when curtain sided vehicles were becoming more popular the company I worked for looked into this problem. A national company had carried out tests involving tipping a trailer with an FLT against the curtain and there was no problem - the curtain held. We used 'trunker stuffer' FLT's which had a mast that hardly moved but the forks did rise. We successfully used them and there were only two incidents I can remember. One involved an FLT going over the edge protection but the curtain prevented it coming off the vehicle and the other was when the trailer moved when an FLT was entering it and the legs of the trailer collapsed. This was prevented by chocking the trailer wheels to prevent movement.

Take care
John C

Hi

Conscious that years have passed, but I have this self same question regarding FLT on curtain siders.

John - Do you remember which national company carried out the testing you refer to above?

Regards

Mick

johnc  
#10 Posted : 17 May 2018 15:42:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnc

Mick, if my memory serves me right it was Tetley of tea fame not beer. They were part of Allied Lyons and both companies were taken over some years ago.

Take care
JohnC
MickD  
#11 Posted : 21 May 2018 11:50:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MickD

Thanks John - I appreciate it.  I'll head down that rabbit hole and see what I can find.

Many regards

NBBeacock  
#12 Posted : 24 May 2018 08:01:21(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
NBBeacock

Again as above I know the thread started a while ago but I have just updated our RA on this as the original was carried out by someone who had no knowledge of FLT use and the people doing the job were not consulted. I am an RTITB approved instructor and have a lot of years experience in loading/unloading of various types of trailers. In my experience a curtian sided trailer with all straps fastened can be as solid as a solid side trailer. If people are trained and assessed in how to actually load and unload and take the right lines in and out of the trailer on a loading bay they should never actually go that close to the sides. We allow counterbalance FLT's to load curtain sided trailers and over the last three years have had zero near misses or accidents, obviously I would not be so bold as to say that it could never happen but in my opinion the potential with the training we give is very low.

MickD  
#13 Posted : 24 May 2018 10:00:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MickD

Originally Posted by: NBBeacock Go to Quoted Post

Again as above I know the thread started a while ago but I have just updated our RA on this as the original was carried out by someone who had no knowledge of FLT use and the people doing the job were not consulted. I am an RTITB approved instructor and have a lot of years experience in loading/unloading of various types of trailers. In my experience a curtian sided trailer with all straps fastened can be as solid as a solid side trailer. If people are trained and assessed in how to actually load and unload and take the right lines in and out of the trailer on a loading bay they should never actually go that close to the sides. We allow counterbalance FLT's to load curtain sided trailers and over the last three years have had zero near misses or accidents, obviously I would not be so bold as to say that it could never happen but in my opinion the potential with the training we give is very low.


Very interesting to hear.  Would it be possible to make contact outside this forum to discuss this further as Its something I've been tasked to look at and havent been able to find an example of a risk assesment.

Cheers

Mick

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 24 May 2018 10:27:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/411093/safetyloadsonvehicles.pdf

16.3 Unless they are purposely designed for a specific load, the curtains of curtain-sided vehicles MUST NOT be considered as part of any load restraint system. They are provided to contain rather than to restrain the load and should be considered as weather protection only. If the curtains have been designed as a restraint system then the load capability should be clearly marked, if no mark can be seen then it should be assumed that the curtains have no load bearing function. Similarly, where vertical inner curtains are fitted and they are not purposely designed for a specific load, they also MUST NOT be considered as part of the load restraining system. They should be considered purely as a means of containing any small, loose items that may have become dislodged during the journey.

NBBeacock  
#15 Posted : 24 May 2018 12:04:45(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
NBBeacock

Hi, Just to clarify, we do not use the curtain as a restraint we train and assess loaders to use a tried and tested loading method which basically means that they are never within approx 6inch (150mm) of the side of the trailer, the same as with a solid trailer. In theory there could be no curtain and a flatbed trailer could be loaded in the same way although not advised. In nearly 30 years of loading and unloading myself and then as a H&S officer and RTITB trainer I have not seen a counterbalance FLT go off the side of a trailer or come across any near misses which may lead to it. I am not saying that it couldn't happen, it could with any type of loading MHE, but I do believe we have, through trianing and job familiarisation reduced the risk of it happening to minimal levels.

MickD you can PM me if you want something mailing over although I am on holiday after today so probably won't get it to you until Mid June.

MickD  
#16 Posted : 24 May 2018 13:45:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MickD

Cheers NBBeacock...

I've found you via your profile on LinkedIn and sent a massege via those means.... 

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