Trying to get some clarity here.

The asbestos regulations fall out of 'domestic' properties and only fall under 'common parts'.

However if you are a Landlord that leases out flats and use contractors for maintenance works and they have said they think they have seen asbestos in the property, do you need a survey conducted??? do Landlords need to conduct surveys in-between leases???. Obviously this is classed as a 'workplace' for the contractors, so should a survey be conducted and is the Landlord the Duty-holder under the CAR Regulations, or does the regulations not apply at all.


I know this topic comes up a lot, some views from the experts would be helpful.

The way I understand this scenario is round Section 4 of the Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 and Regulation 4 of the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2006.

The person in control of the property, ie a Landlord should undertake an assessment of the likelihood of asbestos in the property where persons who use the premises as a place of work, ie contractors, are likely to come into contact with asbestos or disturb it.

My advice would be to have a survey of the premises undertaken by a UKAS accredited surveying company / surveyor, and make the results of the survey known to the contractors you employ for maintenance. Although you will need to ensure that the survey assesses all areas in which the contractors will work.

Hope that helps.

Alex

also not the new asbestos survey standards!

Look at this article as well

http://www.ids.ac.uk/ind...C0-E364-B6A5183210D9EEAD

With the exception of the common areas as mentioned, Domestic Rented Premises are specifically excluded from the DTM. However, HSE have clearly stated that landlords do have to meet the requirements of the Defective Premises Act 1972 (E&W) or the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982. Very briefly summed up, these state that a landlord must not allow harm to occur to a tenant through a defect in the premises. I believe 'illness' is mentioned too, so they could apply it to Asbestos if they choose.

Another angle to take is that the Duties to prevent exposure to/spread of asbestos still very much apply to anyone working in domestic premises - it is of course a tradesman's workplace.

Hammer1, you don't quite say where you are in this process, but if you are the landlord you should as a minimum instruct your contractor to organise suitable surveys etc. (or organise them yourself) whereas if you're the contractor, you must ensure the safety of your employees before instructing them to work upon the building fabric.

Wherever you sit, someone needs to do something to ensure Asbestos is not disturbed during works.

One last point on your original post (and I apologise if it's just verbal pedantry) but domestic premises are not outside of the asbestos regs - just the DTM (Reg 4).

Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks guys.

I have kindly been sent this by another poster on another site, which gives some advice.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/se...idance-refurbishment.pdf

Obviously this is mainly aimed at social housing.

We represent the Landlord of a large portfolio, and trying to access every dwelling would not be practicable, but the approach in the link would seem a very sensible approach.

mmmm, I wonder if I might challenge the assertion that neither CAR nor HASAWA applies to domestic premisies?

I live in my own house, owned and paid for.
It is a domestic property.
Lets say it was built during a period when the use of asbestos containing materials was common practice.
I intend to carry out some extensive building works, extension, modifications to the existing structure etc etc and employ a local builder, not a one man band but lets say a 'recognised' local company, to carry out the work.
Does HASAWA and CAR apply to the work that they do on my domestic premises?

Answers on a post card to your local HSE inspector!!!!

Yes, and while I know that 'hammers' original question appeared to centre on the requirement to manage (and therefore survey?) under CAR R4, landlords responsibilities etc, I was challending the statement that

"CAR does not apply to domestic premises as the HSW does not apply to domestic premises"

While I think most of us understand that Reg 4 itslef is concerned with non domestic premises, pretty much the rest of the regs would apply to the control of asbestos, i.e. CAR does in the main apply to all premises whether non domestic or domenstic.

Likewise, the main duites under HASAWA deals with 'people' such as employers, employees etc or if you want to look at it another way 'work' or exposure to the risks from work activities, rather than premises (I note S4) and it seems to me, an 'odd' (worrying) assertion that the HASAWA does not apply to domestic properties.

I think the example I used helps to demonstrate (in fairness not that most needed that demonstrating) that both the employer and their employess would have, and the latter, be owed duties under HASAWA etc when working on my (domestic premises) house.

Yes, isn't that the VERY point that I just made above? But thanks for the clarification!

Forget Reg 4!!

Reg 5 is the one

an employer shall not undertake any work in demolition, maintenance or ANY Other work unless he has found out is asbestos is present., or assume that asbestos is present and treat accordingly- or something like that.

So

If it a domestic property the onus is on the employer of the contractors to find out and not the house holder.

Yes, and how does the employer find out?

The employer asks the property owner to arrange an asbestos survey OR says to him that he will arrange the survey and charge that cost to the property owner as part of the work/contract.

What is the fixation with asbestos surveys? Asbestos surveys do not reduce risk - to reduce risk you must prevent asbestos fibres from being inhaled. I have seen too many people put at risk because of too much reliance on surveys.

To protect the man in the van, the man in the van must be trained so that he can safely work on asbestos. Furthermore, he must take precautions as though he is working on an asbestos containing material if he cannot positively identify the material as not containing asbestos.

Regards

Chris,

There has been no such thing as licensable asbestos materials since 2006; the work is licensable - not the materials. Furthermore, at no point did I state that giving someone a respirator and a bit of training was managing the risk or protecting other persons. I said that the man in the van must be trained to work safely on asbestos!

Regards

Lets be honest the average householder will drill a hole int he wall of their property without the first thought as to whether he is drilling into asbestos material.