Hi Turtle: You are facing a black hole. The PUWER regulations (Reg 26) require roll protection for mobile plant where there is a risk of roll-over, or at least something to stop it tipping more than onto its side (eg a crane jib etc.). This is an absolute duty which applies to all mobile work equipment.

This is an issue I have been aware of for years, having been Rover's Group Safety Adviser until 1987. Landrovers in particular have all of their strength and weight in the chassis and there is a tendency for the body to "pancake" in rollover accidents on or off-road.

There are huge variants in landrover models. Some models, especially military ones, may incorporate a roll cage these days but I do not believe that this is a standard feature, although I am not a landrover expert and stand to be corrected.

This requirement attracts much controversy - for example the HSE claim you don't have to have a roll cage on an quad bike, despite several high profile accidents (Ozzie Osmond for one) on the basis of some computer simulations they've commissioned. I actually don't believe this would stand up in court against a legal absolute duty in the event of an accident.

I guess this issue is one most 4x4 vehicle manufacturers face and as far as I can see, if you use any vehicle in rough terrain conditions "at work" you legally need a roll cage and a seatbelt to meet the PUWER requirements. The HSE have never sought to enforce this as far as I know, nor has there been any attempt to clarify the PUWER regulations in respect of this issue.

Regards

Dave Daniel - Technical Director - PRM

Have a look at those used in sport such as winch challanges. The owners of these vehicles almost expect the vehicle to roll at sometime and so they are caged to suit. The competetors that I know always seem to prefer the external cages.

Just out of interest Turtle, where are you geographically? I may be able to put you in touch with someone from your local 4x4 Response Team.

Turtle:
There are several guidlines and standards to look at focused on this subject. I am oilfield based and work predominantly off road, so ROP's (roll over protection) is a must. BP have a very in depth guideline, as do our own organization. Land-Rover themselves will provide ROP's to retrofit, or they will do them for you.

Some specs to consider are:
Pipework: schedule 80,
or Seamless steel tube OD 38mm x 2.5mm wt (with foundry certificate)
min tensile strength 350N/mm2
Welding standard EN1708 or AWS D1.1
Nuts / Bolts min grade 8.8
Each "hoop" must be one piece bent min bend radius 3 times tube diameter without crimps or splits.

Hi all.

I think I may have put my original query over badly. What i am looking for is some form of guidance/policy or procedure that lists the assessment criteria for fitting rops to a Landrover, what should the fitting of ROPs be based on?

Might have to disagree a bit here.

I looked at that article Dave. It mentions Landys in road situations rolling over due to being hit from behind and not coming out of it well. But any car will not come out of it well. So does that warrant every car on the road having a roll cage? I think not.

There is off road terrain and then there is serious off road terrain. Technically any vehicle can overturn on any terrain so what we are looking for is the probability. If we are talking muddy farm tracks, fields and unmade roads then the chance of overturn is low (unless being driven irresponsibly and there you have training issues). If the landys are being driven on the more extreme terrain then fair enough fit a roll cage through an approved centre. But I think it is OTT to say fit all Landys with a roll cage. The vast majority of Landys in use (even those used off roading) don't have roll cages, not even the ones driven by farmers.

For the record I discussed this with my hubby who is a landrover nut and has done quite a bit of off-roading on quite extreme terrain. He has never had a roll cage. He says general off roading is usually fine as long as the vehicle is being driven sensibly by someone who knows what they are doing. A roll cage would be required only for the more extreme off road and extreme side gradients. I struggle to see what an employee would be doing to be extreme off roading at work. But I stand to be corrected.

Remember it's not about eliminating risk but managing risk based on likelihood of it happening. So can I ask Turtle how many instances of vehicle overturns there have been in their work setting? What type of off road terrain he is referring to etc?

I think a sensible approach is required unless the company has lots of money it is just dying to get rid of, in which case I could do with some to pay off my mortgage thanks!!

Can you point me to the link page please, can't seem to find it.

Cheers