Rank: Forum user 
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Hi All,
I work for a registered social landlord that has both a not-for-profit business and a commercial business. My understanding of the RR(FS)O is that you can't really fire risk assess (FRA) a new building until it is occupied. However, there are certain senior members that are feeling uncomfortable with trusting to Building Control and the compliance with building regs to satisfy themselves that the site is safe to occupy regarding fire risk.
Although there are some valid reasons for these concerns, I do not believe a pre-occupancy FRa followed closely by a post-occupancy FRA is the smartest or most economic approach to this problem.
Any legal, best practice or anecdotal advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
All the best,
Jon C
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I've been looking at PAS79 which suggests that empty buildings should be fire risk assessed.
It is a guidance document but I personally think it is a good idea, especially if the premises have not been handed over yet. Snagging before occupation.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Jon If the building has undergone significant alterations or is new then part of the compliance with Building Regs should be the provision of specific fire safety information which is supposed to give enough detail to allow the Responsible Person to carry out their fire risk assessment once the building is occupied. Your employer should ask his building contractor for the information required under Reg 16B of the Building Regs, which should have been specified by Building Control as one of the items to be provided before sign-off. Take a look at Appendix G of Approved Doc B if you want to see what info should be included. ADB is free to access online http://www.planningporta...s/br/BR_App_Doc_B_v2.pdfThe fire risk assessment should then be carried out once the building is occupied, using the information provided.
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Rank: Super forum user
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empty buildings etc should be fire risk assessed - if for nothing else but to determine security against arson whilst the building etc is empty
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Rank: Super forum user 
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You have a duty for any person who is lawfully on the premises, and any person who is not on the premises but who may be injured by a fire on the premises. Persons lawfully on the premises of an empty house owned by an RSL could include contractors, surveyors, prospective tenants viewing the premises, directly employed workers, employees of other employers such as gas or utilities who may need emergency access etc. And if a fire broke out, could you be sure that no passing person might be injured? Or people in the house next door. Fire-fighters in the act of fighting a fire are ommitted. Definitions of relevant persons come from Part 1 Article 2 of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005; similar provisions apply to the Fire Safety (Scotland) Act 2005.
Carry out a risk assessment of your empty premises, looking at things like removal of flammable waste from the premises, securing gas/electric supplies in an off position, protection from deliberate or inadvertent arson and so on,
John
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Rank: Super forum user
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I think it's important to distinguish here between the situation I think most of you are describing and the one Jon is asking about. This isn't an existing premises that has become empty. It is a new premises which has not yet been occupied. At least that's how I understand Jon's description.
Jon - the answer to your question is no, a full fire risk assessment under the FSO does not have to be carried out pre-occupation. The contractor carrying out the construction or refurbishment of the premises should give you sufficient information under Reg 16B of the Building Regs to enable the fire risk assessment to be carried out as soon as the building is taken over and occupied.
The contractor should not have had approval and final sign-off from Building Control without providing satisfactory information under this Regulation. For a simple building it may be no more than an as-built drawing, which contains all the necessary details to subsequently carry out the assessment. I would suggest that carrying out a FRA in an empty building only to do it again a few weeks later when the building is occupied and probably has a quite different risk profile is as you say pointless.
Why are your senior people uneasy with trusting Building Control? In all probability BC will have involved the FRS if they felt there was a need anyway. Is the building particularly complex or unusual?
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