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sweenytodd  
#1 Posted : 01 April 2010 16:25:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sweenytodd

Please feel free to comment on the topics below, as I am looking for feedback for a project I am doing so any help would be grateful 1- Is there any legislation regarding the sale of power tools to people with no training. 2-Does anyone think that there should be tighter control of the sale of such things as nail guns. 3-Should hire shops and DIY stores be obliged to provide some sort of formal training to customers.
PhilBeale  
#2 Posted : 01 April 2010 16:36:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

There is an article in Which magazine around information provided to customers on the safe use of equipment and also poor maintenance of the equipment they hired. even one with foil wrapped around the fuse in the plug. Should there be restrictions on some equipment you can buy YES Chainsaws scaffolding towers (not sure about nail guns). basically if you require formal training in the working world Such as training tio use chainsaws or erect scaffolding then it should apply to the DIY market. where there is less control over peoples experience or knowledge of such equipment. As to hire shops who's going to train the trainers a sales person can't have enough training on every piece of equipment to then be able to go and pass it onto the customer. for my scaffolding erecting course of mobile towers it was a day course how on earth is someone in a shop going to pass that information onto someone in a shop. i think once more deaths or serious injury's that occur by the DIYer in the uk only then will things change and then it will be the fault of health and safety from stopping people killing themselves. IMHO Phil
sweenytodd  
#3 Posted : 01 April 2010 16:52:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sweenytodd

Hi Phil I have seen loads of articles on this. I feel though that the likes of B&Q or HSS could hold say a training morning on a Saturday for specific powertools etc and if you attend you get a an awareness certificate allowing you to purchase said item at least this would be some sort of control. The HSE dont allow you to tighten a bolt anymore with some sort of training record at work, so I think they should possibly look at tightening the law on the sale and hire of scaffold towers etc
PhilBeale  
#4 Posted : 01 April 2010 17:20:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

At the end of the day B&Q and the likes want to sell power tools so would not be keen to give a negative image of diy by offering such courses freely of their own back. it would be for government to change the law on what diy stores can sale with or without some form of training. but until there are more deaths or serious injury's or pressure from general members of the public then things won't change. Not sure of number but no doubt deaths due to diy accidents are very low so won't be seen worth investing time money in changing the law on and would be seen as nannying by the general members of the public Even the HSE top campaign is slip trips and falls is what they regard as significant issue for them to do something about it. Not sure but i wouldn't have thought there would be many deaths from slips trips and falls against possible other causes. But i guess it's seen as every sector can play it's part in rather than just targeting say the construction industry or engineering or farming. have trip down to casualty this weekend especially being the longest and first for the year and see people with chainsaws sticking out of there heads or forks through the foot Lol. diy stores are rubbing there hands together now but A&E departments are dreading it. Also nothing wrong with a bit of natural selection. currently a programme on called a 1'000 ways to die, bit like the darwin awards. example: a guy holding up a gun shop and getting shot seven times by the shop owner and his customers. Phil Phil
pete48  
#5 Posted : 01 April 2010 17:22:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pete48

Leaving aside the fact that this is not workplace we could nonetheless use the four pillars (info, instruct, train, supervise ) as a base for looking at why things are the way they are. Maybe the information and instruction bit of the four pillars are rightly the responsibility of the person offering kit for hire and most do that in my experience. The training and supervision is the responsibility of the person hiring the kit. Should the training be mandatory? Why? If you are trying to protect people from themselves how would attending a "short" course help, how long would certificates last, would I have to attend again if I hadn't hired a nail gun for two years? What if I get my mate to hire it 'cos he has a cert and then I use it? Where is the law on that scenario? The point about controls in the workplace is that they are means to ensure that employers are required protect employees who have no real choice about what they do, with what kit and how they do it. In a citizens private life they can choose, why should we try to formally control or limit that choice? Make the info and instructions as good as we can, offer training by all means but trying to use complex systems to control this area is bound to fail on a number of levels.
David Bannister  
#6 Posted : 01 April 2010 18:45:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Sounds dangerously close to "nanny state" to me. The tools are designed and built to comply with EU Regs (well those from reputable suppliers are anyway), carry warning stickers where necessary and have comprehensive instructions including safe use. As Pete 48 rightly said this is a matter of choice and it is about time we gave a little more prominence to an individual's need to look after their own safety. A car is a massively more powerful machine than a nail gun, is much more common and despite mandatory skills and knowledge tests is regularly used irresponsibly and recklessly by many, causing deaths and maimings.
CFT  
#7 Posted : 01 April 2010 19:31:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CFT

sweenytodd wrote:
Please feel free to comment on the topics below, as I am looking for feedback for a project I am doing so any help would be grateful 1- Is there any legislation regarding the sale of power tools to people with no training. 2-Does anyone think that there should be tighter control of the sale of such things as nail guns. 3-Should hire shops and DIY stores be obliged to provide some sort of formal training to customers.
Hi Sweeny 1. No not currently. 2. No, I consider it is fine as is. 3. Plenty of hire centres have procedures in place to offer in-house training on the use of certain equipment. Again, I consider it acceptable as is. I have hired several articles over the years that had the capability to maim or kill. Common sense and the instruction I received was sufficient however. 3a. No to DIY stores to provide training. There comes a time in life when one has to say enough is enough; and as already mentioned there is no legal requirement to train me when I pop out to purchase my next 'super-car,' which statistically speaking (probably), kills more people than incorrect use of power tools. What of ride-on lawn-mowers? There have been fatalities as well as serious injury, indeed many items of garden equipment can be quite difficult to use. A powerful brush cutter with a blade is one such example. Another is shredders...seriously dangerous if instructions are not followed.Chain saws already mentioned but petrol hedge cutters also can cause serious harm. Where would it all end? CFT
xRockape  
#8 Posted : 01 April 2010 20:06:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
xRockape

I think pete hit the nail on the head, DIY is not a workplace activity. Therefore the HSAWA does not apply in the home(unless it is a workplace). However, both the HSE and LA would enforce the hiring of work equipment used within a workplace. Examples that have already been mentioned are Scaffold erection, ride on mowers used for example by local authorities, Mewps etc.
sweenytodd  
#9 Posted : 02 April 2010 11:26:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sweenytodd

Thanks to all for your input, this will aid my project for the final part of my BSc if anyone else has any other ideas or comments please add them.
Canopener  
#10 Posted : 02 April 2010 12:01:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I am much with 'stuff' and CFT on this. Also read the Which report yesterday, interesting reading, not entirely surprising but nevertheless a few howlers. I particulalry liked the tin foil fuse! Scary! 1. No 2. Unsure why you have singled out nail guns specifically - OK so I sort of do, but I have an electric one and it is bonser, easy to use and so far I haven't managed to nail myself to anything OMG I can't believe I just said that!), but do accept that the cartridge type can be quite a 'cheeky' piece of kit in the wrong hands! Hey how about chainsaws? 3. Nice thought, feet on the ground here. Can I suggest practicalities? Record keeping? All of the tools I have bought over the years have pretty reasonable instrauctions and safety warnings etc (although I have noticed a few bloopers in the translations at times) I hired a cherry picker and the safety information was comprehansive and I was given a demonstration. Ovewrall, DIY stores no, simply not pratical in my opinion. Hire stores, maybe, depending on what it being hired. In both cases good, comprehensive, proportionate instructions - yes.
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