There are a number of registers now containing the names of approved fire risk assessors. I am thinking of applying to one of them, and confident of acceptance, but the application fee and annual subs are quite prohibitive to me. Can anyone who is on one of the lists say if they have received any fire risk assessment work because they are on the register?

I don't mind coughing up the dosh but will I make a few quid if I do?

There is not much interest at present, probably because not a lot of IOSH members have their name on a register of fire risk assessors? I have asked one name on the list who I know from long ago, and he believes there is some good, if only for clients that want a local assessor. IFE do not have a forum such as this one otherwise I would put the question there. stuff4blokes thanks for reviving this topic.

Smiffy, What you say is true and I do agree - apart from leaving WAH off your list, very important issue with HSE these days, but my question regards any benefits from being on such a list. The IFE are a professional organisation that has a register and there are professional people on that list. Validation/competence checking is part of the application process so no problem there. I suppose if there was an Institution for risk assessment then we would all be applying to join - mmmmmmmm not a bad idea - would anyone like to join me in starting up such an institution?

Sorry Smiff I don’t agree with what you say. I know there has to be risk assessments on the items you identified but the knowledge required to undertake risk assessments in those fields do not compare with risk assessments in fire safety. The subject of fire safety is huge and so the knowledge required is far, far greater than that required for say PPE or manual handling or any of the other items you identified. So while there is an argument for having a register for fire risk assessors I don’t think you can put the same argument for risk assessors in the other fields you mentioned. In my view the fire risk assessor register is not a money making scam it is a way of trying to weed out the cowboys or the people who think they know a bit about fire safety but until they attempt to get on the register they don’t realise how little they know. Why is it that Chris has not had a great deal of response on this forum to his question? There are several on this forum who undertake fire risk assessments. Why aren’t they registering themselves on these fire risk assessor registers? Is it because they feel they would not make the grade, after all the IFE refuse a significant proportion of applicants; or is it maybe they feel the financial costs are not worth the effort which, if true, kind of answers Chris’ question. I know which one I think it is! Having said that I have not applied to go on any of the FRA registers myself. Partly because in my view there should only be one register and partly because of the experience I had of putting a colleague through the process. It took over a year despite everything being in place. Also I am a student so we know how tight the budget is!

I know there has to be risk assessments on the items you identified but the knowledge required to undertake risk assessments in those fields do not compare with risk assessments in fire safety. Sorry Shaun, I think you have a very narrow view of safety and to some extent talking nonsense. DSEAR is a very specialised area of risk assessment - working in the O&G sector I would not be impressed if a non chemical engineer/process safety engineer or other experienced/qualified engineer who understood the formation of explosive atmospheres, risk factors, likely failure modes etc around an oil refinery/chemical process plant. Undestanding the principles of fire is also vital to DSEAR, but get the DSEAR bit right and you shouldn't have a fire. I currently work in N safety, very few IOSH members work in the safety department!! - and if things go wrong the consequences are far worse/long term than any conventional fire you could name. So because these guys are not on some register, they are not competent? Best tell the HSE Nuclear Inspectorate then and get the nuclear power stations shut down. Most are guys are BSc/PHd level in science/engineering and quite frankly would laugh at conventional risk assessments and the depth of analysis. Confined spaces - requires more than a passing knowledge of the activity/risks too -quite easy to kill people in that area too. CoSHH - get your controls wrong here/not understand the chemistry/health effects and quite a lot of people could die/become seriously ill - maybe not over night, but in 20-30yrs. So not a serious risk?? or a decent level competence required?? My view on safety is that it is such a broad area of employment - formal registers prove very little. Much better for the Courts to make it crystal clear that incompetent 'assessors' and/or the employers that use them will pay a significant penalty if it is shown that poor risk assessment contributed to making a situation/accident worse.

Smiff, I agree that DSEAR is a very specialised area and so the field is very narrow in terms of people who claim they are able to undertake DSEAR risk assessments and in terms of places in which DSEAR is applicable. I believe, I hope, it is a field where you don’t get many cowboys operating unlike fire safety. As you know FRA’s are required in more or less every workplace which means there is a greater demand for fire risk assessors than there are for DSEAR. It means there are far more unqualified people setting up as fire risk assessors who think they can wing it, who think they can pull the wool over a clients eyes and often do. As you have so eloquently indicated with the qualifications some of the engineers have in the O & G industry it would be very difficult for a non—qualified DSEAR risk assessor to wing it. This is why there should be a register for fire risk assessors, to curtail the cowboy. As for the other areas you have mentioned I am not doubting that getting the assessments wrong can have serious consequences because they can. I am saying that fire safety is a far bigger field than any of the others you have mentioned both in the subject field and in its applicability. The knowledge a fire risk assessor needs, in my opinion, is much greater than for confined spaces or manual handling etc. ‘So because these guys are not on some register, they are not competent? Best tell the HSE Nuclear Inspectorate then and get the nuclear power stations shut down.’ I’m not sure why you felt the need to say this. There is no suggestion in what I said that because someone is not on a register that they are incompetent. Your last paragraph I believe supports what I am saying. If someone wants to employ a competent fire risk assessor wouldn’t it be more helpful if they could refer to a professional register where someone has had to prove their competency to be on the register rather than discover they have employed an incompetent assessor and then go before the judge to answer why?

Fortunately it is a lot more than 'bothering to register'. All of the FRA registers require a good degree of supporting evidence and being judged by a panel of experts before being accepted on the register. That is why the IFE reject a significant number of applicants as do the others. Yes it is true that ex firefighters and existing firefighters have set themselves up as fire risk assessors without having the underpinning knowledge so once again your argument actually supports what I am saying. Having a register where those accepted on it have had to prove a certain standard of competence will weed out those cowboys.

Chris, I am not on any register, I am however, with the IFE at Membership level (MIFireE) and demonstrate my ability to carry out FRA for complex premises by my qualifications and experience. I do not believe that any particular register is the first port of call when a client is considering FRA and at this point in time with there being a number of registers within the fire safety field, I do not see any particular benefit in subscribing. WRT individuals not being on any particular rregister or general safety practitioners carrying out FRA, I do not have any dificulty in this, providing that they understand their limitations. On the subject of DSEAR, there have been many cases where it has been necessary to have been assessed by me for inclusion as a part of a number of FRA's. Ultimately and in my opinion, for anything other than the most simple and low risk premises, the Fire Risk Assessor must have detailed knowledge of fire dynamics, building construction and behaviour.

Thanks everyone, things got a little heated for a short while but calmed down now. It's good to see people believing in their views. I was recently denied applying for some self employed fire risk assessments because the client wanted consultants who were on a "register". I have - today - asked an agency if they were aware of clients asking for "registered" fire consultants, they said no. No real advantages then so I think I'll follow Stuff's lead and put my application on hold. Thanks again to everyone.