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m  
#1 Posted : 07 May 2010 09:26:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
m

I have put together a 5x5 severity and likelihood matrix to update our archaic RA methodology. I would like to see how others have done this so that I can benchmark. The area I am struggling with is the definitions regarding what to do with the higher outcomes; differentiating between 'bad' and 'very bad'. Any examples or links would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
IanS  
#2 Posted : 07 May 2010 09:44:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
IanS

You've hit on one of the problems of over complicating the RA matrix, IMHO. Depending on the overall nature of the site "Bad" or 4 may mean 1 fatality whereas "Very Bad" or 5 may mean multiple deaths. So what does that make a 1? First Aid or less? and 2, a LTA with 3 a reportable?

For a low risk site 4 may mean a LTA whereas 5 could be a RLTA.

Then you have the likelihood to define. Again not easy unless you are talking specific failure modes.

And, in the final analysis, you'll probably end up with Low, Medium and High risks anyway.
Sqn Ldr Smiff  
#3 Posted : 07 May 2010 10:31:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Sqn Ldr Smiff

Depends on your industry/risk profile, but essentially its a matter of building a word model suitable for your use.

It could look something like this

Severity
1 - Minor injury/no first aid. No financial loss
2 - First aid treatment. Loss of value/production to £3000
3 - First aid/RIDDOR reportable/Lost time injury. Losses of upto £10k. No off site consequences
4 - Hospital attendance, serious injury (RIDDOR defined)/months to recover, some loss of function. Losses up to £25000. May affect very close neighbours (e.g. toxic gas release/environmental releases)
5 - Death/very sever disability injury, serious long term ill health consequences. Losses £50k. Highly likely to affect the general public/kill/injure members of the public. Severe environmental consequences.

Likelihood
1 - Unlikely to happen in lifetime of the plant/25yrs+
2 - Has been known to happen in the industry/every 10yrs
3 - Has happened on a number of occasions/every 5yrs
4- -Quite likely to happen - occurs most years
5 - Common event, happens many times per year

SUch word models are common in the high risk/peto-chemical sector. If justified you can try to assign numerical frequencies if justified for the level of risk/hazard.

You can use the ALARP triangle figures (see R2P2 HSE document). 1x10^-3 totally unacceptable to workers, 1 x 10^-4 unacceptable risk to members of the public. 1 x 10^-5 tolerable if ALARP, 1 x 10^-6 ALARP, no further action required.

Again it depends on what level of risk frequency your company directors etc are prepared to accept.

In the oil industry the money values/time periods are usually much greater than this.

As you may have gathered the above is based on the petro-chem/oil-gas industry ways of risk assessment where you are dealing with (usually) high consequence/low likelihood events.

It is not usually necessary to over complicate your RA matrix in low risk industry/situations.
BuzzLightyear  
#4 Posted : 07 May 2010 11:04:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
BuzzLightyear

Any particular reason why 5x5? I put a 3x3 matrix in place as I am always conscious of not putting staff off completing risk assessments. I work in social care so the complexity of risk assessments and staff culture may be different to your situation. At one time I considered removing risk ratings - in line with HSE sample risk assessments. However, I was pleasently surprised that staff wanted to keep them. In our case;

Severity; 'What's the worst harm you'd reasonable expect:

Slight = minor injury - up to three days off work
Serious = Can't work or do normal activities for over three days
Major = Permanent injury, illness or death

Likelihood =
Highly Unlikely
May Happen
Likely.

Results = Trivial, Low, Medium, High, Intolerable

Not perfect by any means. I don't think the rating is critically important in most cases - it's more the thought process that matters. We have risk ratings before and after additional control measures are put into practice. This encourages people to take a more determined look at how then can reduce risk - well that's the theory anyway!
redken  
#5 Posted : 07 May 2010 11:17:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
redken

And if you are talking risk profiles then according to a principal HSE inspector you have to take the wider consequences into account such as in his example:

" a broken leg in a fall from a ladder in a company with many employees is a temporary setback, but what does a broken leg mean to a self-employed window cleaner"

Letter May SHP 2010
Reed21854  
#6 Posted : 07 May 2010 12:05:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Reed21854

I use one like this:

Likliehood:

1 - unlikely to happen
2 - possibly could happen
3 - likely to happen
4 - very likely to happen
5 - regularly occurs

Severity:

1 - slight injury, no lost time, no first aid
2 - minor injury - not reportable, but first aid treatment required
3 - more serious injury - over 3 day RIDDOR reportable
4 - Major injury - RIDDOR reportable
5 - Fatality
Safety Smurf  
#7 Posted : 07 May 2010 13:09:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy of mine for comparison
MaxPayne  
#8 Posted : 07 May 2010 13:16:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

It's 5 x 6, but I'll throw it in anyway:


Severity of the hazard if incident occurs

1 - No Harm - No injury, damage, or sickness or other loss, i.e. of working equipment.

2 - Minor harm - First aid injury or illness, minor damage or loss.
For example, scratch, bruise, minor cut, minor burns. Normal work possible after first aid treatment.

3 - Serious harm - Burns, severe cuts, strains, sprains. Accidents result in loss of time less than 3 day injury.

4 - Major harm - Minor fractures (fingers & toes), temporarily disabling back injuries. Accidents result in an over ‘three-day’ injury or illness, substantial damage or loss.

5 - Catastrophic Harm - Fatality - Fatality, disabling illness, catastrophic damage or loss. For example, loss of limb, fractures to legs and arms, multiple injuries and fatalities.

_______________________________________________________

Likelihood of being exposed to risk

1 - Won’t Happen - The likelihood that a person will come into contact with dangerous machinery parts when there is fixed guarding in place.

2 - Extremely unlikely - The likelihood that a person will fall down a manhole with a properly fitted, intact cover. The likelihood that a person will touch a live conductor in a computer while word processing.

3 - Unlikely - The likelihood that a person will fall down an open manhole protected with suitable barriers and appropriate signage.
The likelihood that someone will touch a live conductor while servicing a computer which is switched off and isolated.

4 - Likely - The likelihood that a person will fall down an open manhole protected only by a flimsy barrier. The likelihood that someone will touch a live conductor while servicing a computer which is switched off but not isolated.

5 - Extremely likely - The likelihood that a person will fall down and open manhole which has inappropriate barriers or incorrect signage. The likelihood that someone will touch a live conductor while servicing.

6 - Almost Certain or imminent - The likelihood that a person will fall down an open manhole which has no barrier and no warning signs. The likelihood that someone will touch a live conductor while servicing a computer when it is switched on.

MEden380  
#9 Posted : 07 May 2010 15:01:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

Why bother with a matrix?
If you identify a hazard with an associated risk then do something about it i.e put in control measures
If you use a matrix such as yours and you look at a hazard where the serverity is severe and the likelyhood remote and you score a 1x5, this would usually be below any action level.
How do you then explain that one accident in 100 years to the HSE and someones next of kin. we knew about the hazard but did little about it.
A matrix looks impressive but detracts from your initial findings. Identify - Control
This may be a simplistic approach, but why complicate something just for the sake of making it complicated
Mohammed Al Nakib  
#10 Posted : 07 May 2010 19:01:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mohammed Al Nakib

Reed described it well, however, we in the oil and gas have a breakdown of severity "People, Environment and Asset", as for people it starts with:
1 - slight injury, no lost time,
2 - minor injury - eg first aid treatment required
3 - more serious injury -
4 - Major injury including disability and a single fatality
5 - Multiple fatalities
Judging the frequency could be hard if you are part of a small organisation, but you can categorise as:
1 - unlikely to happen
2 - occurred else where
3 - occurred in the organisation
4 - occurs once a year in the activity
5 - regularly occurs in the same activity
You can define monitory valued for asset and impacts to the environment, but its all related to your line of business.
Al.  
#11 Posted : 08 May 2010 13:27:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Al.

As above, why both with a matrix at all?
Take a look at the HSE's website where there is guidance on carrying out risk assessments. No matrices there. They are an unnecessary complication and there is no requirement in law or from elsewhere to use them.
Andy Petrie  
#12 Posted : 10 May 2010 15:50:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Andy Petrie

MEden

A martix is used to rank risks. If like some organisations you have hundreds if not thousands of real risks than a matrix is a good way of ranking them and dealing with them in order of severity.

How would I explain a severe accident with a 1/100 year rating to the next of kin, I would tell them I was dealing with the 1/1 year and 1/10 year accidents first as ranked by my matrix.
Jim Tassell  
#13 Posted : 10 May 2010 17:00:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jim Tassell

Count me in the "why do it?" camp for reasons given above.
Trying to port scores over into action plans is equally open to question. There's no link between the risk (your score) and the practicability of the fix. There are additional factors there such as complexity, options available and even things like the company's development plans. Please be very careful over this. Don't forget the concept of getting the greatest benefit for the greatest number of people.

Jim
m  
#14 Posted : 10 May 2010 19:43:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
m

Thanks for all of yout comments, it seems to have prompted an interesting debate. My point in having a matrix was a means to scale and ranks the various risks that we are exposed to. Having done that I can deal with them in some kind of quantified order. I now have a 5x5 giving 4 levels of output, each having a different requirement:
1-4: OK
5-9: review controls
10-16 do not start until risks reduced to 9 or below
Above 17-25 (actually only 20 or 25 possible): stop process (this should only come up in a review)

So that starts part two of the debate..how do the rankings sound?

RayRapp  
#15 Posted : 11 May 2010 09:14:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

It could be argued that a risk matrix is an 'idiots' guide for those that are not familiar with the process or concept. Personally, I think it is a weak argument and I am also in favour of removing them altogether. Qualitative RAs make for better reading and understanding; and of course it is the quality of the controls which should be the focus.
Andy Petrie  
#16 Posted : 11 May 2010 10:44:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Andy Petrie

M - I like your approach, the rankings sound fine. I can't comment on the specific scales as they need to be right for your business and risk exposure but so seem on the right lines.

Ray - 'an idots guide' I'm afraid you're missing the point. A qualitive RA is fine for a small system with minimal risk exposure but when assesing comples high hazard systems then a matrix approach is the recognised industry standard. It in itself is a qualitative stystem with low ranking risks being assessed as just that. Depending on the type of risk then more detailed assessment or quantitative analysis is carried out on the higher risks. When you've managed all your higher risks you move onto the lower ones.

The HSE guidance is for small businesses not high risk organisaions who manage their risks properly, often using matrices in line with standards such as the Yellow Book, BS EN 50126-9 etc. Hardly a set of 'idiots guides'.
ITER  
#17 Posted : 11 May 2010 12:11:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ITER

Ray

While there are many arguments for and against risk matrix tables in risk assessment, if used properly they are a useful tool, and are not an idiots guide.

Note useful tool they do not provide a final answer, but act as a guide to risk management decisions - i.e. which risks to tackle first.

As the Sqn Ldr says they are used in the oil/gas and chemical industry. WHile we can all argue about experts and competence etc - nevertheless when used by experts in the industry with engineering data obtained with the O&G/petro chemical industry about reliability of process valves and equipment etc (pressure relief valves, fire detectors, gas detectors etc) - all of which are fed into the risk matrix/QRA calculation to give an estimate of risk.

In the high risk industeries when many lives could be at stake but also when upgrades/changes to plant can cost many thousands of £, if not millions of £ there has to be an objective way of determining priorities for action.

Further such decisions are then fed into Cost Benefit Analysis, to justify either remedial action or to take no action. See the earlier comments about the ALARP principle and figures quoted by the Sqn Ldr.

If a cost is then put to a proposed upgrade etc, based on the risk assessment/matrix decision that the risk might be unacceptable, then using the gross multiplier factors quoted in HSE guidance for the oil/gas/offshore industry sector (x6 up to x10) - it can be determined if a risk is ALARP and/or if further expenditure is justified.

All such information would be relevant if risk management decisions had to be justified to the HSE or a Court etc.

So yes, everything comes down to money, even safety... hope that isn't too much of a shock for the idealists among you. You are expendable!

Suggest people read the HSE guidance books 'R2P2' and 'Tolerability of nuclear reactors', then the offshore industry guide to risk assessment series of guidance notes from the HSE about the ALARP concept.
ahn2  
#18 Posted : 11 May 2010 12:42:30(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
ahn2

We are in a low risk environment ie Social Housing not petrochemical. We often identify several hundred hazards in a year and we have to budget carefully from our fixed income.

With the best will in the world we couldn't fix or control everything every year, that's including every potential trip point from a few mm upwards in public paths and so on.

So how can we manage these hundreds of risks?

In the past what could be repaired or controlled was doneuntil the budget allocation ran dry. Some were remembered for next years budget, many were forgotten until an accident happened or they were reported again.

We now use a 4X4 factor assessment to rank for budget priority, if that's an idiots guide so be it!
RayRapp  
#19 Posted : 11 May 2010 12:43:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

If a more detailed RA is needed which includes a RA matrix for higher risk activities then fine. QRAs are used by engineers for this purpose. However, for most undertakings I do not believe a quantatitive matrix is needed and adds little if any value to the RA process. Regualtions and HSE guidance is not set in stone. A former tutor once commented 'there are no right and wrongs, provided you can justify what you have done'.

At the risk of stating the b..... obvious, the 'idiots' guide comment was not to be taken too literally, hence the quotations marks. Come on guys, lighten up a bit.
ITER  
#20 Posted : 11 May 2010 12:55:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ITER

ahn2

I quite agree with you, for low risk organisations, complex risk matrix are not required (even the Sqn Ldr agrees with you).

I was hopefully helping people to understand how the risk matrix approach to risk assessment can be used to measure risk and to justify risk management actions etc.

Ray
'there are no right and wrongs, provided you can justify what you have done' - I think you should have added the caveat 'and a Court agrees with you'

HSE guidance may not be set in stone, but until told otherwise [by a Court], it remains a powerful/persuasive guide for the standard to be met.

Normally your answers are pretty good on this forum, but I think you were wide of the mark on this one. Just an observation - not a criticism

redken  
#21 Posted : 11 May 2010 13:11:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
redken

ahn2 wrote:

We now use a 4X4 factor assessment to rank for budget priority, if that's an idiots guide so be it!


If you can use the above to differentiate between hundreds of low level risks then you are very clever not an idiot.

My opinion is that Risk Assessment as required by legislation has nothing to do with situations like yours.
colinreeves  
#22 Posted : 11 May 2010 14:53:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
colinreeves

Just as an aside, whilst the HSE does not necessarily require a matrix form of risk assessment, they are not the only regulatory authority and at least one does require* a matrixed RA system.

*The ACoP actually says "This is a suggestion only" but who goes against an ACoP without VERY good reason!!
RayRapp  
#23 Posted : 11 May 2010 17:54:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

ITER

Fair point and I am not offended. On reflection I suppose I was ripping the backside out of it a bit, but I do wonder sometimes whether we are sheep. The HSE don't always get it right. Indeed, only time prevents me from making a very large list of errors by the regulators. Despite contrary opinions there is some scope with the regulations and guidance (yes, the courts in their wisdom have the power to decide what is right or wrong with hindisght) and there is no legal requirement to use a risk matrix. So why use one as a matter of course? I suspect it is something to do with the Emperor's new clothes...
Stedman  
#24 Posted : 18 May 2010 13:00:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

In order to interject some objective aspect into this subject, as safety practitioners we need to be aware of the research around the limitation of risk matrixes, particularly the research undertaken by Tony Cox, Louis titled ‘What's Wrong with Risk Matrices’?

In this he suggests “that risk matrices should be used with caution and only with careful explanations of embedded judgments”.
JESU  
#25 Posted : 18 May 2010 14:32:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JESU

Hi Gentlemen,
I am in a process of educating my supervisors in the Hazard Itendification and Risk Assessment. I use a 3x3 matrix, HML &Very likely, likely, Un likely. Now I plan to upgrade their knowledge by using a 5x5 matix, more presisely.,
Thanks to all members in this discussion, I have lot to talk about RA in my training sessions, which I got from this discussion.

Jesu
Adrian Watson  
#26 Posted : 19 May 2010 06:55:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Adrian Watson

Dear all,

Before carrying out a risk assessment it should be remembered that we carry out assessments to identify the risks (severity and likelihood of injury) to the health and safety of employees and other persons arising from the work activity to identify the measures (needed to minimise, control and mitigate the effects of the risks) necessary to comply with the law. Furthermore, we have to put in place those measures, monitor them to see they are effective and keep records.

The matrix system implies that we only have to deal with significant risks; we do not - the law requires that we have to deal with all risks (that are real, and not fanciful or hypothetical risks) arising from the work activities of the undertaking. What is necessary is determined by the law: In some cases e.g. machine guarding we have to take specific measures regardless of cost; whilst in other cases we have to do what is practical, reasonably practical or what is reasonable in the circumstances.

Regards
RayRapp  
#27 Posted : 19 May 2010 09:04:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

The law also requires only the 'significant findings' of the risk assessment to be recorded...not all risks and that includes the ubiquitous risk matrix.
ITER  
#28 Posted : 19 May 2010 09:08:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ITER

akwatson statement

'The matrix system implies that we only have to deal with significant risks; we do not - the law requires that we have to deal with all risks (that are real, and not fanciful or hypothetical risks) arising from the work activities of the undertaking.'

All risks do not have to be assessed - formally assessing all risks is meaningless and overly restrictive/expensive exercise and is NOT required by the law.

Reg 3 Management Regs

(1) Every employer shall make a suitable and sufficient assessment of -
(a) the risks to health and safety of his employees

The ACOP goes on to say para 13 a
'Once the risks are assessed and taken in to account, insignificant risks can usually be ignored, as can risks arising from routine activities associated with life in general, unless the work activity compounds or significantly alters those risks'

So as well as looking at meaningful risks such as machinery safety, work at height etc do you have risk assessments for - making cups of tea, eating your lunch, taking stationary out of the cupboard, walking from your desk to a meeting room, turning the light on, coshh assessments for Tippex/liquids paper etc etc
PH2  
#29 Posted : 19 May 2010 09:28:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PH2

There is some useful guidance in the "Standards Australia Risk Management AS/NZS 4360:2004". Here is a link to a sample.

http://www.ssa.vic.gov.a...j/risk_assessment_matrix(table)/$File/risk_assessment_matrix(table).pdf
MEden380  
#30 Posted : 19 May 2010 09:35:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MEden380

a document that gives guidance on this subject BSI British Standards 18004:2008 Guide to achieving
effective occupational health and safety performance.
A large portion of the document is given over to Risk Assessment
Stedman  
#31 Posted : 19 May 2010 10:19:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

If the five step risk assessment process is properly applied, arguably in most situations there is no added benefit in trying to calculate the value of the risk as most of the information required to make a risk management decision has already been obtained.

Because of the subjective interpretation which different users of a risk matrix may use, unless there are strict procedures in place for risk interpretation, training is provided, the process is continually monitored and each judgement is carefully recorded, then this is likely to fail. See ‘What’s wrong with risk matrixes’ Tony Cox Lewis.

I believe that risk matrixes do have a place when explaining complex risk management situations such as those found within a nuclear plant; however these usually form part of a comprehensive report where each judgement is carefully recorded and is often backed up with established research.

As there is plenty of evidence surrounding the majority of everyday occupational risks such as work at height, asbestos, silica, moving vehicles, overloading of plant, etc, why do we need to go through this process in order to justify these risks which we are already aware of?

Clearly there are two schools of thought on this subject, however for those of you who support matrixes are you completing the process by carefully recording your risk matrix judgements and if you are relying on the risk judgement which others is this also recorded?

PS. This thread may be the start of a good dissertation opportunity for some one!
Adrian Watson  
#32 Posted : 19 May 2010 11:33:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Adrian Watson

ITER wrote:
akwatson statement
All risks do not have to be assessed - formally assessing all risks is meaningless and overly restrictive/expensive exercise and is NOT required by the law.

...

So as well as looking at meaningful risks such as machinery safety, work at height etc do you have risk assessments for - making cups of tea, eating your lunch, taking stationary out of the cupboard, walking from your desk to a meeting room, turning the light on, coshh assessments for Tippex/liquids paper etc etc


Dear ITER,

Firstly. You must first assess a risk, otherwise how can you determine that it is trivial?

Secondly. I did not state that you had to deal with all risks; you could determine that it was not reasonable in the circumstances to do anything; that it was not reasonably practical to do more; or that it was not practical to do anything. However if somebody was injured then you would have to defend your position in court.

Furthermore when looking at risks; all risks have a probability spread of outcomes. If drink the tipex you may get cancer, liver damage, a headache or a raging thirst for more. So what do you put in your matrix, the most severe outcome and its probability or the most likely outcome and its outcome or both and their outcomes and then take the most serious rating.

I'm not an advocate of throwing the baby out with the bath-water, but i'd rather know the limitations of the tool. I'd also like to know that the tool does not protect the workers or the organisation. If this tool was a car it would have been withdrawn and banned.

Oh by the way making cups of tea scalding risk - severe outcomes to the young.
Unloading cupboards - manual handling - back injuries - significant person injury to old, overweight and pregnant.
Eating food - lead and other heavy metal poisoning in workshops.
Walking from your desk to a meeting room - slip, trips and falls - due to unsuitable floor surfaces, obstructions and poor lighting.

Regards
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