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jrs786  
#1 Posted : 29 June 2010 14:25:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
jrs786

Hi Does anyone have any experience of unloading slabs of granite from open top shipping containers. We dont have a gantry system but rely on someone climbing in and silinging the slabs manually which seems a little hazardouse given the slabs could move whilst you are amongst them.

We are considering pre slinging, but still need to seperate the slabs as they are held tight in place with wedges for transportation.

Looking for any industry practices please!!

Any help appreciated.
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 29 June 2010 14:26:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Would vacuum lift be appropriate?
MaxPayne  
#3 Posted : 29 June 2010 15:05:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

jrs786 wrote:
Hi Does anyone have any experience of unloading slabs of granite from open top shipping containers. We dont have a gantry system but rely on someone climbing in and silinging the slabs manually which seems a little hazardouse given the slabs could move whilst you are amongst them.

We are considering pre slinging, but still need to seperate the slabs as they are held tight in place with wedges for transportation.

Looking for any industry practices please!!

Any help appreciated.


Given recent publicity about crush type accidents, there's no way I'd allow the guy to be in there with the potential.
holmezy  
#4 Posted : 30 June 2010 08:40:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
holmezy

JRS,

I can totally what you are going through, having had exactly the same problem! And, I might add, failing to come up with an answer. Well, I had a few answers but they were deemed inappropriate by the company!

I suppose you have issues with
a)employees gaining access to the top of the container to remove the sheeting? We had 2 sites, one with a gantry which allowed us to remove the sheeting by hand from a safe position. At other site, we used a man riding basket on a FLT in an area with flat stable ground. Also, despite managements annoyance (and some employees), we lowered/raised the cage to move down the container.

b) employees standing on top of the granite, which comes with Working at Height issues. Nowehere to attach a fall arrest system, unless we used the crane! Very slippy in wet weather with the rain on polished edges. Lots of trips hazards with the wood, polythene etc.

c) employees swinging sledge hammers or using reciprocal saws to un-chock the crates, whilst standing on the edges of the slabs. One of my fears was always that if the employee slipped and fell, how would we get him out of the container? Especially if he's injured?

d) employees having to climb down into the container to position the slings! Obvious risk of falls, crushing etc (however, our chap was extremely careful which bits of wood he cut.....which although commendable, never made me feel comfortable!)

The obvious solution would be to have all slabs delivered in closed top containers, which we could unload with a FLT fitted with a grab attachment. However, we didnt seem to be able to get this message over to the suppliers in India, China, Brazil et al, nor do I think we were strong enough, as a company (even though we thought we were the biggest and best, to enforce it! Plus, some of the slabs were too big for the closed top containers and had to be in open tops?

I think that we didnt really want to change what we "have always done" because of commercial reasons, not because we wanted to "unload safer". The Company always felt sad when another Company had an employee crushed but didnt seem to comprehend that there was a significant risk of the same sort of accident happening on their site! The stone industry, and this company inparticular, seems to be 30 years behind the times in everything they do?

I dont work for the Company any longer as they decided that they didnt really need a H+S Manager politely telling them what they should be doing! And I'm not bitter,,,,quite relieved in fact!

Feel free to email me if you want to bounce a few ideas around!

Holmezy
holmezy  
#5 Posted : 30 June 2010 08:41:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
holmezy




I can totally UNDERSTAND what you are going through,

sorry
boblewis  
#6 Posted : 30 June 2010 10:37:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

For me I would firstly ensure the order is placed through a UK supplier with a requirement to supply in FLT accessible containers.

If such open top containers are then used get the UK supplier to unpack them for you - Its called risk export!!

The risk of falling material is quite significant as these containers have been subjected to many stresses during shipping and I find that even placing employees inside open ended containers can be significantly risky. Have known two material falls of this type in the context of 25 deliveries made.

Look at the actual value of the container - it may be cheaper to sacrifice it by cutting an opening!!

Bob
holmezy  
#7 Posted : 30 June 2010 11:25:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
holmezy


Bob,

nice ideas, and all been suggested in the past!

Firstly, we were the UK supplier having firstly imported the material. The cost of using a 3rd party to would be excessive and far out weigh any profit we might have made from the granite. The slabs are upto 4m by 2.5m, packed upto 8 per crate, and upto 10 per container. Each slab (at that size) weighs approx 850kg. In order for them to be picked up by FLT, we would need to approach from the side, which you can't do with the container. A flt capable of lifting something 4m long and weighing close to 9t would not fit into the rear of a closed top container, plus you have got the "reach/conterbalance" issues to consider.

We also looked into using a 3rd party to unload containers for us, but again, the cost was excessive considering the worth of the granite, so unless folks want to start paying lots more for worktops, sounters, hotel lobby's, building cladding etc, that was never going to be an option, plus we also had increased haulage costs.

The idea of sacrificing the container by acetylene cutting was also discussed, but again excessive £££. And we would then have the issue of time to cut the container into managable pieces to dispose of. A container tales about 2hrs to safely cut into to allow unloading, then another 3-4 hours to cut up, so when we had upto 5 containers a day, it becomes a big problem.

And yes, all of the above puts profit before the employee who has to get into the container, however, no profit, no business! As I said, this particular stone business was "behind the times" and had little or no control over who, or how the slabs were loaded. I know that the Indian supplier load all the slabs by hand, then build the crates round the slabs, so that makes it more difficult to get the crates out.

As I said, I'm out of that business now, but its the "way things are done in the granite slab industry", and the business levels aren't there to sustain higher prices, however, I'm sure that the HSE could have visited us on any day of the week and quite easily given a improvement, or probably a prohibition notice. The industry is always remorseful when accidents or deaths occur, but as individuals company's still havent come up with a solution to the problem that allows them to make £££!

Granite takes thousands of years to form, perhaps it's unreasonable to expect the the industry to change quickly!

Not trying to defend what happens, I know its not right, but changing it is a whole different problem!

Holmezy
boblewis  
#8 Posted : 30 June 2010 12:18:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Isn't there a type of expanding anchor, based on the scissor principle, for lifting individual slabs. I am sure I have seen it used by masons and quarries. The design is such that vertical upward loading opens out the anchor that has been located into drilled holes in the slab. Somewhere I have seen this in action!!!

Bob
boblewis  
#9 Posted : 30 June 2010 12:28:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Silly me

It is the Lewis Lifting Appliance - dates back to at least Roman times. Not sure of maximum weight it can lift though.


Bob
holmezy  
#10 Posted : 30 June 2010 12:58:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
holmezy

Bob,

yep, considered those as well! And they are ok in certain scenarios, but do struggle for grip on polished granite sometimes!

We used this type of lifting accessory when lifting individual slabs, but usually, due to the wholesale supply we'ed sling a bundle of slabs together and lift with crane / slings.

Unloading an open to container, a slab at a time would be excessive in terms of time. Approx 80 slabs would take 3 or 4 hours due to the speed of the crane and distance to interim storage area, which is relatively short at 10m. Not a good idea to have a slab of granite flying through the air at high speed!

Keep the ideas coming, we'll get there in the end!

Holmezy
wizzpete  
#11 Posted : 01 July 2010 10:30:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wizzpete

I understand your point about the industry having an old culture which is difficult to change - and with low profit margins, change is even harder.

But isn't it the old maxim - 'If you think Safety is expensive, try having an accident' ? perhaps a cost analysis of a fatality vs slower unloading times may help the company to perceive things differently?

Just a thought...
holmezy  
#12 Posted : 01 July 2010 12:29:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
holmezy

Wizz,

and thats exactly the point I argued.

Unfortunately the answer was always relative to the productive £ rather the safety £, and besides "we haven't had an accident,,, yet". The management refused to see the link that others, doing exactly the same thing had actually had an accident, rather they thought that we did things better, because we were bigger.

I explained that perhaps we were just luckier, and hence I don't work there anymore!

Apologies to the OP for hijacking his post!

Holmezy
LARRYL  
#13 Posted : 01 July 2010 16:57:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LARRYL

The company I work for got involved in granite about 3 years ago and the whole industry is a H&S minefield, from unloading as mentioned earlier, to the machining, hand finishing, cleaning and sealing and finally fitting.
Wish I had a £1 for every time I heard "that's the industry norm" but we are making slow inroads into changing attitudes but its not easy or cheap, and as mentioned earlier the profit margins arent great.
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