Not so sure about new ideas but I always recall the Simon Jones and Euromin case - largely due to the large amount of publicity it was given by the comedian / activist Mark Thomas. The campaign website is still live - http://www.simonjones.org.uk/campaign/index.htm But the key part is the trial transcripts and interviews here - http://www.simonjones.org.uk/trial/index.htm and in particular the interviews / evidence of James Martell. Although the jury returned a not guilty verdict, the detailed cross examination of Mr Martell makes uncomfortable reading for any manager having to defend their actions. The amount of bad publicity surrounding the incident was also unwelcome by all concerned. Worth a read if you have the time - just to see how fine the toothcomb of the English legal system is.

Thank you both; Stevie40, sobering reading so far; thanks for the links. Steve, although I am member of the RI group; the place concerned is a manufacturing plant the guy concerned is the manager there.

Hi Stuie Not sure how long you have been trying with this manager as it can take sometime to turn him around. He has possibly spent years in his present frame of mind so you are unlikely to change it overnight. Two things I have found in the past that helps: 1. Try showing the waste of money from accidents in terms he will more readily understand. An example from my days in Brewing that I successfully used was to relate the costs of sick pay for work related accidents as the number of barrels of beer that were poured down the drain or the number of pubs being run just to pay the sick pay. 2 Try and find something were your input re H&S has actually produced a better product, less machine downtime or less waste. I remember requesting a change of disinfectant that had been used for many many years and after the initial protests it was accepted, especially when they realised that the type I was suggesting was half the price. Little steps make for better more sustainable progress. Take care John C

Hello Stuie: Reading what you wrote: 'I am trying to convert a belligerent, stubborn (a bit like me really!) manager into someone that take H&S seriously. I have tried softly softly and the carrot and stick so to speak but the guy seems so stuck in his ways. HR are not a lot of use as they point blank refuse to even consider the disciplinary route. The BoD are aware of the situation. All possibilites will be considered?!?! Obviously, you've done good work with the experiments you've used so far. Great that you've got such an interesting opportunity for developing other managers and your organisation - to the extent you use this opportunity, it can transform your organisation for the better. Bearing in mind that there is no account of the other individual's description of his work or of your behaviour, I wonder what specific behaviour you are expecting from what you label 'a belligerent, stubborn (a bit like me really) manager as evidence that he is 'taking H & S seriously' or not. Evidence of more than fifty years about organisational change accounts for the responses of 'the guy' and of HR and the 'BoD', to the oppositional way in which you frame whatever problems there are. On the basis of the information you provide, the problem can be viewed as a pair of 'belligerent,stubborn' reasonably intelligent and industrious people who reportedly lack skills in helpful enquiry and harmonising their areas of commitment. Fruitful solutions are available along the lines or organisational development. If you want to enlarge the area of joint commitment so that your colleague 'takes H & S seriously', whatever that means in practice, he's offering you a great opportunity to start with the personal development necessary for organisational development. Unless it's evident that you are risking changing your behaviour, why should anyone else risk changing their own behaviour or 'disciplining' anyone because you ask them to? If you would like a brief explanation of the Safe Coaching Index that enables progress along these lines, you can email be off line or phone me during office hours on 020 8654 0808

Thank you for the feedback. For those that are interested I will update you when I have something to feedback. Stuart