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mikecarr  
#1 Posted : 18 October 2010 10:54:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikecarr

Hi all

does anyone have any experince with coffe machines? The type that would normally be found in starbucks or somewhere like that. We are wondering if they would come under the pressure system regs. I can't see it to be honest but others I work with think they are.

any tips welcome

Jane Blunt  
#2 Posted : 18 October 2010 10:57:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Some of them do. If they dispense steam at any pressure, they do come under the pressure system regs and will require a written scheme of examination.

I believe that a reasonable diagnostic is whether they produce frothy coffee (no guarantees of accuracy).
mikecarr  
#3 Posted : 18 October 2010 11:01:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mikecarr

Thanks....it seems no one here really know's including our M&E contrators

Regards

Mike

jwk  
#4 Posted : 18 October 2010 11:11:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Agree with Jane, steam is a relevant fluid at any pressure. I mostly drink espresso in any case (by the way, there is no 'x' in espresso,)

John
walker  
#5 Posted : 18 October 2010 11:56:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
walker

Didn't one "blow up" the other week??
MB1  
#6 Posted : 18 October 2010 11:56:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MB1

This may be of help
http://www.espresso-coff...resso-coffe-machine.html

Pump produces pressure up to 8 bar for certain drinks
Jane Blunt  
#7 Posted : 18 October 2010 12:03:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

walker wrote:
Didn't one "blow up" the other week??


Yes, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/new...gland-hampshire-11302161
PhilBeale  
#8 Posted : 18 October 2010 12:06:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PhilBeale

Contact the supplier of the equipment for advice, it's certainly in the news so no doubt a lot of manufacturers of such equipment would have an answer or investigated the issue themselves.maybe try the manufacturers website they may have posted an update on there, otherwise phone.

Phil
Jim Tassell  
#9 Posted : 18 October 2010 15:37:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jim Tassell

Regs apply to pressure systems containing relevant fluids. Steam is a relevant fluid at any pressure. A system is one that comprises of a pressure vessel of rigid construction plus any associated pipework and fittings.
I suggest you look at espresso machines on wikipedia. Most seem to have some sort of rigid vessel, even if it's rather small. So, if in doubt treat it as a pressure system. Leaving the recent incident aside as we don't yet know the full story, just remember that the old fashioned Stills under-counter coffee set could easily blow a wall out if it exploded. Steam has a particularly large amount of energy associated with it, even in small volumes, so a call to your plant insurers is the first one to make.
Chrishutcheson  
#10 Posted : 18 October 2010 15:51:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chrishutcheson

They would come under pressure regs if they produce above atmospheric pressure >0.5 bar, which most models will. There is always the risk that there is a failure in the components causing excessive pressure to build up, which on many occasions have caused the machine to explode. I read of a case recently where this happened.
Chrishutcheson  
#11 Posted : 18 October 2010 15:51:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Chrishutcheson

They would come under pressure regs if they produce above atmospheric pressure >0.5 bar, which most models will. There is always the risk that there is a failure in the components causing excessive pressure to build up, which on many occasions have caused the machine to explode. I read of a case recently where this happened.
Jane Blunt  
#12 Posted : 18 October 2010 16:16:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

Chrishutcheson wrote:
They would come under pressure regs if they produce above atmospheric pressure >0.5 bar, which most models will. There is always the risk that there is a failure in the components causing excessive pressure to build up, which on many occasions have caused the machine to explode. I read of a case recently where this happened.


The 0.5 bar threshold does not apply to steam. The full regulations apply to steam at any pressure.
jwk  
#13 Posted : 18 October 2010 16:24:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Chris,

As Jane has already stated, steam is a 'relevant fluid' at any pressure, the 1.5 bar stipulation applies to all other fluids, but not steam,

John
Jane Blunt  
#14 Posted : 18 October 2010 16:36:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Jane Blunt

jwk wrote:
Chris,

As Jane has already stated, steam is a 'relevant fluid' at any pressure, the 1.5 bar stipulation applies to all other fluids, but not steam,

John


In case this confuses, the regulations give a threshold for relevant fluids other than steam as 0.5 bar (gauge). A gauge pressure is measuring the pressure of the fluid over and above the atmosphere. Since the atmosphere is 1 bar, this means:

the threshold is 0.5 bar (gauge) or 0.5 barg
or 1.5 bar absolute.

Bring back the Torr, all is forgiven.
jwk  
#15 Posted : 18 October 2010 16:51:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

OK< 1.5 bar absolute, 0.5 bar overpressure,

John
jwk  
#16 Posted : 18 October 2010 16:52:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

That's not meant to be a < in the previous post by the way, that would really make no sense!

John
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