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CraigEls  
#1 Posted : 15 November 2010 11:00:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CraigEls

Opinions Please. I have sub-contractors working on one of our sites fitting ceiling panels working from Scaffold Towers. The ceiling height is 2.5m, so they are using small pop-up aluminium towers with a platform height at about 1m. It is currently written in to our risk and method statement, that brakes to be applied to wheels during use. I am being asked to review the paperwork, as the installers prefer to be able to move the tower as they progress along the ceiling by pulling themselves along whilst standing on the platform. I can understand that having to climb up and down to apply brakes to move the tower only a few feet is time consuming, but all literature I can find states that brakes must be applied during use. Any thoughts??
freelance safety  
#2 Posted : 15 November 2010 11:12:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

If the manufacturers state that the brakes have to be applied, then that is the answer. Alternatively you could look at the mini-lifts that many M&E contractors now use. These don’t require releasing and applying brakes, eliminating the need to get out of the platform each time you need to move it.
Pauline Palmer  
#3 Posted : 15 November 2010 11:37:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pauline Palmer

This is what is known as skate boarding or surfing. This practise is against the manufacturers guidelines and the PASMA code of practise, which is a recognised competency for building and inspecting towers. However with any course - its open to abuse. Any mobile scaffold tower should have 4 brakes applied when in use - thats why they are there. Otherwise you may want to use a mewp. I can't see how you can complete a risk assessment and approve that working with no brakes is acceptable? Should an accident occur, I think allowing anyone to do so, it would be very difficult to defend your position. Pauline
freelance safety  
#4 Posted : 15 November 2010 11:41:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

You would not have a leg to stand on - pardon the pun lol!
CraigEls  
#5 Posted : 15 November 2010 12:07:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CraigEls

Thanks all. That was the answer I was expecting, just needed confirmation.
Canopener  
#6 Posted : 15 November 2010 13:29:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

You may also be interested in HSE Construction Information sheet 10 which although doesn't mention brakes, does say that you shouldn't move a scaffold tower with either people or kit on it http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis10.pdf
firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 15 November 2010 15:18:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Craig, just as a matter of my own interest how are they accessing the working platform, (1m high is there a hatch or is it over the side rails)? And is fall protection handrails and toeboards fitted? Thanks
CraigEls  
#8 Posted : 15 November 2010 16:07:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CraigEls

Hi Chris. I was being generous with 1m, actual working platform height is 600mm. Generally has handrail to three sides, although additional railings can be fitted. Access is basically by stepping up on to platform. Scaffold being used is basically the same as this link. http://www.rk-access.com....asp?folder=boss-roomate I am now going to sit back and wait for all the responses regarding suitability etc.
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 15 November 2010 16:57:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Hi Craig, thanks for the reply. You may find a few replies about the lack of a fourth safety rail? Have you thought about stilts? Used in the correct circumstances, and as long as the user is competent I have found stilts to be excellent for the purpose in similar situations if the ceiling fixer is wanting to move along quickly. Having said that I'll probably be criticised for even suggesting them.
frankc  
#10 Posted : 15 November 2010 17:45:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

craigels wrote:
Hi Chris. I was being generous with 1m, actual working platform height is 600mm. Generally has handrail to three sides, although additional railings can be fitted. Access is basically by stepping up on to platform. Scaffold being used is basically the same as this link. http://www.rk-access.com....asp?folder=boss-roomate I am now going to sit back and wait for all the responses regarding suitability etc.
If it's the same as the one you provided in the link, it should have guardrails on 4 sides, Craig. Definitely in breach of the W@H Regs (Avoid, PREVENT, protect)...
IanS  
#11 Posted : 16 November 2010 03:58:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
IanS

Just a thought. Why not fit them with full harness and lanyards, and let's not forget the air bags in case, despite all this they still manage to fall from the dizzy height of 600mm! Didn't somebody just issue a report about sensible risk assessment!
RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 16 November 2010 08:26:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

For goodness sake, 600mm or 2 feet in old money, why not just use a podium or similar?
freelance safety  
#13 Posted : 16 November 2010 08:46:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

I really must wear my glasses when typing out replies. I thought it was a 2.5m tower - ROFL!
frankc  
#14 Posted : 16 November 2010 18:12:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

ians wrote:
Just a thought. Why not fit them with full harness and lanyards, and let's not forget the air bags in case, despite all this they still manage to fall from the dizzy height of 600mm! Didn't somebody just issue a report about sensible risk assessment!
Ian, Craig has posted a link which he says is basically the same as the one he is using. It states it comes with four horizontal bracings. Should he choose not to utilise them and somebody falls backwards from 600mm and breaks their neck, would the HSE consider he had carried out a sensible R/A?
Rick Warner  
#15 Posted : 16 November 2010 18:53:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rick Warner

Rather than using a scaffod tower, is there no way that you can get a small Scissor lift in for the works, we use very small ones which can fit through a normal sized door!, this would eliminate the need for continually moving the scaffold tower.
Canopener  
#16 Posted : 16 November 2010 19:36:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Canopener

I remember the days when suspended ceiling fitters used to wear stilts. I wonder if they still do!
Rick Warner  
#17 Posted : 16 November 2010 19:42:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Rick Warner

Errr stilts, probably not a ha ha
firesafety101  
#18 Posted : 16 November 2010 20:17:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Have a look at #9 above, I mentioned stilts. What's wrong with using stilts anyway, if they are the correct equipment for the job and properly risk assessed?
freelance safety  
#19 Posted : 16 November 2010 20:31:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
freelance safety

I use to like stilts!
IanS  
#20 Posted : 16 November 2010 21:04:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
IanS

Frank, I don't want to argue the point but a risk assessment is just that. You wish to remove all risk, I would assume that a tradesman of even a modicum of "common sense" is unlikely to fall from such a platform and even should he do so, the injury is likely to be slight form 600mm rather than a broken neck. Sure, it's a possibility that a fall from 600mm could result in death but the likelihood? I would agree with Ray, use a podium or similar. What is in use, with three side rails, reduces the residual risk from a simple podium and it is a personal view as to whether that assessment is suitable and sufficient. By the way, the article in question may have four sides available but the picture on the link shows it in use with only three of them fitted.
frankc  
#21 Posted : 16 November 2010 22:13:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

ians wrote:
Frank, I don't want to argue the point but a risk assessment is just that. You wish to remove all risk, I would assume that a tradesman of even a modicum of "common sense" is unlikely to fall from such a platform and even should he do so, the injury is likely to be slight form 600mm rather than a broken neck. Sure, it's a possibility that a fall from 600mm could result in death but the likelihood? .
No intention of letting this drift into an arguement, Ian. I deliver PASMA training and the W@H regs are quite clear about the hierarchy. People can produce an R/A without guardrails if they like but i believe allowing someone to work at 600mm-800mm without collective fall prevention leaves themselves open to possible litigation for producing an insufficient R/A should someone fall and injure themselves. PS (Agree the likelihood of death is minimal) PPS (Would like to see the M.I.M. of the Room mate to see if it can be used without guardrails on one side and if so, how it complies with the W@H Regs)
boblewis  
#22 Posted : 16 November 2010 22:17:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Craig If they really do want to use them without brakes and prefer to scoot along while on the tower the simple answer is to sack the supervisor or get another subbie!!! Bob
CraigEls  
#23 Posted : 18 November 2010 11:57:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CraigEls

Wow. The expression stirring up a Hornets nest comes to mind. To answer a few of the questions. On 99% of all our jobs, Scissor Lifts are utilised. There is however a small number of multi tier projects we work on where access to a second or third floor with a scissor lift is not available. Our risk and method statements DO state that handrail is to be fitted to all edges on the small Scaffold Towers. However on occasion whilst visiting site, I have witnessed them being used with only three. Yes the individuals in question are spoken to, but as I am sure most of you are aware that you can’t be on site all the time, so rely heavily on site management to report back. And I am sure if the site management don’t pick up on it, or don’t consider it an issue, the practice gets abused. And whilst we are on the subject The W&H Regulations Schedule 2. Section 3 item B States Toe-boards shall be suitable and sufficient to prevent the fall of any person, or any material or object, from any place of work. Yet small scaffold towers and Podium steps as suggested don’t have them so in turn must contravene the regulations. If this is the case how can they have BS or CE approval??
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