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????????????? Where did it go?
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I don't know, but having had a very brief look at it earlier, I personally am not sorry to see it go. I personally didn't like the direction it was taking, and other than the fact that Lord Young had previously done the report on H&S I didn't see that the discussions were especially relevant to a H&S forum. 'Spect I will be a lone voice ion the wilderness though!
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Rank: Forum user
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Fair enough. On reflection, it may have been a bit cutting.
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Was there a thread on this I missed it
Why was it pulled
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Yes, and it is right that it is removed because it was about his political position and nothing to do with his report, it was about some rather unsavoury comments about the position the people are in and his wrong interpretation of the economy. Let's give the mods some respect they acted quite correctly.
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Rank: Moderator 
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Bob, thank you for your assessment and support, the topic was removed after consideration by the team. Forum Rule 9 is the relevant reference,
Peter
IOSH Mod Team
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Rank: Forum user
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bob shillabeer wrote:Yes, and it is right that it is removed because it was about his political position and nothing to do with his report, it was about some rather unsavoury comments about the position the people are in and his wrong interpretation of the economy. Let's give the mods some respect they acted quite correctly.
Thanks for that bob
Having not had the opportunity to view the thread I obviously cant comment on the content or agree or disagree
I have very strong held views on Lord Youngs report but thats for another debate perhaps
Fair enough
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Rank: Super forum user
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Bob, I'd love to live in a black and white one dimensional world.....?
Lord Young; Politics and Health and Safety are all inextricably linked. His comments show his ineptitude about the realisms that are occurring within the UK. The fact that his recent poor commentary merely compounds what many already know about the inaccuracies and poor judgements that have been made by the report (he chaired) and his many comments about health and safety.
It’s reprehensible that the bastion of free speech does not apply at IOSH.
"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."
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Rank: Forum user
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freelance safety wrote:Bob, I'd love to live in a black and white one dimensional world.....?
Lord Young; Politics and Health and Safety are all inextricably linked. His comments show his ineptitude about the realisms that are occurring within the UK. The fact that his recent poor commentary merely compounds what many already know about the inaccuracies and poor judgements that have been made by the report (he chaired) and his many comments about health and safety.
It’s reprehensible that the bastion of free speech does not apply at IOSH.
"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."
Well said.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Thanks GeoffB4, but I would like to also make the following points very clear. This is not directed at any individual, far from it.
To all that have contributed, I don’t believe that a complaint was made against Lord Young, rather his political stance.
When an individual employed directly through our Prime Minister is appointed to a task in the public eye, any commentary that is made within the public realm that affects the general populous MUST respectfully be open to debate.
This was never an attack at Lord Young; it was his political message that he has promoted in the public arena. To deny anyone to make a commentary on this bias is to restrict freedom of speech.
I don’t believe I or others were in breach of Regulation 9 as this was not an unwarranted attack against an individual nor any organisation. Maybe with hindsight what should of occurred was an evaluation of each posting rather than remove the posting altogether.
We should all view the reasonable media storylines in the national papers tomorrow and see if they have been subjected to a restriction of commentary that has now been created as a precedent on this forum?
Even the very man who engaged him to chair the review on health and safety is now distancing himself as not part of any political allegiance to his party (Mr Prime Minister).
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just back from the club, nothing said about Lord Young but a lot about the Welsh performance in tonights game. That is not apt for this forum either so won't go there. Done that tonight, some agree some don't. Just like this forum. There will always be some who disagree with the opinion of others, I have, sometimes tongue in cheek, made comentes I know will be met with some dirision, but that's the way I am. The comments by Lord Young were about non safety related views and It is only of interest to this forum because of his report. If it was from any other person this forum would not have commented upon it, but because of his report into H&S it has been picked up. Nothing to do with this forum so let it go.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Hang on a minute there Bob, Lord Young's comments were not about health and safety granted, but bearing in mind he was recently an author into serious issues affecting this industry, I think it does question his ability to make an impartial and accurate report. Furthermore, I agree with Freelance's comments and the right to make comment on this topic on this forum. It's a discussion about facts which were reported in the news and not unsubstantiated rumours we are discussing.
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Rank: Guest
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Interesting that the PM's spokesperson's evasive response on whether he had confidence in him did manage to say "(he) had produced a good report on health and safety". Presmably not considered "inaccurate" like his other offerings.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The compensation culture effect is being solved even before the review, by simply altering the basis of legal aid. The basis was altered previously after no-win-no-fee offered a way to save money.
Since no-win-no-fee is going to be dramatically scaled-back, and legal aid is going to be removed for things like unfair dismissal cases and compensation cases, you can see where it is all going.
For one thing, unions are going to pick-up a heftier tab for members legal assistance since they recover part of it from legal aid.
Maybe the IOSH is thinking more of its "foot in the door of Westminster" than OSH ?
Politics: It corrupts everyone and everything in the end.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I think this is something that we ought to be able to debate.
I personally, was appalled by IOSH stance over LY report, it seems to me they (IOSH) were using it to grind an axe to about consultants registers. Whereas I saw (or was that foresaw?) the report as an excuse to decimate HSE.
To use LY own words the H&S report was also "both inaccurate and insensitive."
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Rank: Super forum user
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I disagree with Lord Young's assessment of how H&S works in the UK (and even in Europe for that matter) and would be willing to debate how that will affect future H&S legislation. However, the fact remains he has resigned because he raised an issue about how well individuals are off which is nothing to do with H&S. He used terminology that comes from the late 1950s and perhaps that is were his mindset is who knows. I fail to see how this issue can be brought into the scope of this forum just because he wrote the H&S piece. I am not a tory supporter and object to trying to cloud the issue with such talk.
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Rank: Moderator
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Just to clarify this matter for everyone. There is no restriction on discussing the impact of the resignation of Lord Young on the status or implementation of his report as long as the discussion does not wander into personal attacks or derogatory remarks about Lord Young.
The moderating team are not censors, we simply strive to ensure the forum rules are respected,
thank you
Peter.
IOSH Mod Team.
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I must say that I was extremely disappointed in the Government appointing someone who was that out of touch with real life. It's like these people that say Health and Safety has gone mad, with my reply "I'd love you to come around some of the workplaces with me then and let's see if it's gone mad".
I think the government have missed the point, they had a great opportunity to make a constructive change to the way H&S is implemented. There could of been a directive that the format of H&S Documentation could of been standardised such as risk assessment. In addition the pre-qualification process for business's could of been improved.
At present the amount of different information that is required for pre-qualification questionnaires is out of control, if a company has CHAS with some PQQ's that's fine but then others they want a mountain of information when the company has demonstrated compliance with current legislation.
It's the same if you have ISO 14001, but then the PQQ wants additional information on Environmental compliance.
I don't think it's any great loss to society that Lord Young has gone, finally the management are back in control of the asylum.
Rigout
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Rank: Super forum user
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The management may well be back in control of the asylum: But that does not preclude them being inmates as well.
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And maybe I should point out that the review identifies areas where cost could be reduced, although many of those are areas/items that cannot be affected by UK government.
Cost reduction [legal] is being done by removing legal aid, and altering [yet again] the no-win-no-fee procedure (much disliked by safety professionals).
The drastic under-reporting of accidents is being solved by making only those over 7 days (working days) reportable, and by doubtless exempting small firms (those with less than 7000 employees no doubt) from reporting anything other than accidental death.
My union remains convinced that their ability to represent their members legally is also going to be reduced, if not removed.
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Let’s be totally clear on this issue of comments made. Lord Young made his comments in the public arena. He was employed by the Government (even had his own work desk at number 10!).
This is about Lord Youngs political stance and his out of touch opinions, which are very relevant for a man who chaired a report that will affect our profession. His report and comments merely compound what many feel in the health and safety profession about his inept approach.
Lord Young; Politics and Health and Safety are all inextricably linked, for anyone to believe otherwise is naive.
His comments show his ineptitude about the realisms that are occurring within the UK. The fact that his recent poor commentary merely compounds what many already know about the inaccuracies and poor judgements that have been made by the report (he chaired) and his many comments about health and safety.
The discussion was about substantiated FACTS that were reported nationally by the media.
On the subject of censoring; freedom of speech is often considered to be one of the most basic tenets of democracy.
The whole concept of having boundaries to relevant communication is not only dangerous on a political level - it is a form of censorship and borders on dictatorship, which must never be endorsed.
Free speech is not an ambiguous concept; it is a given and inalienable right in a democratic society. Nobody should be trusted as the arbiter of free speech.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I don't know, but having had a very brief look at it earlier, I personally am not sorry to see it go. I personally didn't like the direction it was taking, and other than the fact that Lord Young had previously done the report on H&S I didn't see that the discussions were especially relevant to a H&S forum. 'Spect I will be a lone voice ion the wilderness though!
This is a posting from the begining of this thread. It is very much to the point, there is no place on this forum for political views only logical ones. Lord Young resigned because he said something less than wise, not because he was wrong in his report of H&S.
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Bob, you have missed the point, maybe it was not clear enough?
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quote=bob shillabeer]I don't know, but having had a very brief look at it earlier, I personally am not sorry to see it go. I personally didn't like the direction it was taking, and other than the fact that Lord Young had previously done the report on H&S I didn't see that the discussions were especially relevant to a H&S forum. 'Spect I will be a lone voice ion the wilderness though!
This is a posting from the begining of this thread. It is very much to the point, there is no place on this forum for political views only logical ones. Lord Young resigned because he said something less than wise, not because he was wrong in his report of H&S.
Whether he resigned over a something he said about politics or H&S the fact of the matter is he was out of touch with society as it is today. How can he say that it's a "so called recession" when thousands of people are losing their employment and homes.
His report was about getting the press on side, the fact of the matter is there is no such thing as a low risk work place unless the hazards identified have suitable and sufficient control measures in place.
Rigout
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Rank: Super forum user
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The point I am making which seems to have been missed is the fact that his comments about never having it so good is totally out of place within the current situation. It is nothing to do with H&S. The fact that he has made a serious misjudgement does not mean his findings on H&S are wrong and they need serious and thoughtful consideration before they are ridiculed. It may well prove to be totally erronious and die the death without any serious change, but that is for the future and IOSH are actively involved in this very important work. Try please to think outside the box and put things into thier various sectors as they are totally unrelated topics.
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Bob, read the comments by other and try to assimilate others views, even iof you don't agree with them. If anyone needs to think outside of the box? – look in the mirror.
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Sorry for the gramatical errors!
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I am trying very hard to get my view across but seem to be failing rather badly. The point I am making is his comments about never having it so good are totally out of place when talking about the future of H&S. It may well be that he is totally wrong in his approach to H&S and his report will be found out by those with real knowledge. His comments about not having it so good have no place on this site but his comments on H&S do. At worse it allows safety professionals the oportunity to debate the issue.
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By the way I do look in the mirror at least every morning, not a pritty sight I can assure you,. I do not have an over inflated view of myself and trust my views and opinions as they have been quite good over the years although there have been some errors in the past I still believe my views carry some weight in some circles.
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Bob, I think you have got your view across and people do understand it.
However, it's clear that you don't understand the views of others and the points that they have raised.
This of course is fine, but you should maybe accept this for what it is?
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My last posting on this topic. Lord Young has stated his views on H&S and it is now for others to consider what if anything needs to be done. His latest error of judgement is a totally different thing and should not cloud the issue on H&S. I do understand that others may have a different opinion and am not trying to ridicule those views as it is everyone to his own. But, we must remember that this forum is about safety issues and not political ones.
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Lord Young; Politics and Health and Safety are all inextricably linked, for anyone to believe otherwise is naive.
Our profession revolves about politics every day of the week Bob?
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Agree that Health & Safety and Politics – go together like Bacon & Eggs.
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quote=bob shillabeer]My last posting on this topic. Lord Young has stated his views on H&S and it is now for others to consider what if anything needs to be done. His latest error of judgement is a totally different thing and should not cloud the issue on H&S. I do understand that others may have a different opinion and am not trying to ridicule those views as it is everyone to his own. But, we must remember that this forum is about safety issues and not political ones.
I think what your forgetting bob is that Lord Youngs' inaccurate report has a big impact on the health, safety and wellbeing on every employee in this country, the fact that he's now got every office and retail store manager within the country thinking that H&S doesn't appy to them is a discrace.
Health & Safety and Politics do go together that's why when anyone who studies for H&S has to learn about the structure of law and the way it's implmented in to the workplace. Law is made by Politics and this should never be forgotton.
Rigout
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sorry but can't resist it. Politics is the means that something is passed into law, not the reason for the law. The reason is from the need to do things in a correct way and I am not detracting from that and don't disagree. The reason why Lord Young resigned was because he made an error and stated some very insulting words to many peole who have just lost thier liveihoods. He is a polititian and should not make such remarks, however, the fact remains his report is nothing to do with the dispicable comments he made. If you have any argument with the law then make those comments but please stop clouding the issues please.
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quote=bob shillabeer]Sorry but can't resist it. Politics is the means that something is passed into law, not the reason for the law. The reason is from the need to do things in a correct way and I am not detracting from that and don't disagree. The reason why Lord Young resigned was because he made an error and stated some very insulting words to many peole who have just lost thier liveihoods. He is a polititian and should not make such remarks, however, the fact remains his report is nothing to do with the dispicable comments he made. If you have any argument with the law then make those comments but please stop clouding the issues please.
Could you please advise if your real name is Bob or is it really Lord Young?
Please also note that the forum now has a function built in where you can check your spelling!
Rigout
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rigout
Pot, kettle, black!! 'discrace', 'forgotton'.
LB
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Rank: Super forum user
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My name is Bob, well Robert actually, never have been or will be a Tory both by nature and choice. But I think I am able to take a view on what they say and sorry the two issues are not related even through polotics. What his Lordship has siad is deeply offensive and quite wrong. He should try living in the real world to find out what is going on. But, that's going into politics. Spelling was never my strongest point so will use the spell checker in future or the dictionary I always keep next to my desk. Remember to take a view opposite to someone you need to understand what they are saying to make an educated choice.
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I'm not going to post in thread after this.
My personal view is that Lord Young was in a position to change a profession that he clearly did not understand or recognise what is going on within workplaces throughout the country.
I must say I was jumping up and down with joy when I heard the news, as since his inaccurate report I've been thinking that I've wasted 5 years of my life studying and attending courses and trying my best to provide competent advice.
Hopefully now the people with the knowledge and experience will prevail and steer this profession in to the right direction.
At the end of the day people have to work, there are hazards and significant risks presented to employees and others affected by the undertakings of many businesses within the UK.
Stakeholders can only implement control measures if they are aware of the specific duties and guidance.
A work environment can only be LOW RISK if there are suitable and sufficient control measure in place to reduce the risk.
Since yesterday the country is a better place, I'm just glad he messed up before he followed through with his unfounded corrective measures.
Rigout
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