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SW  
#1 Posted : 25 November 2010 13:24:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SW

I seem to remember a thread discussing if window cleaners, who got injured during the course of their work, could seek claim compensation against the Householder if the ground or path was defective resulting in their Injury. Anyone know of a link please? I did a search but there were in excess of 20 pages and my computer runs on steam and very slow! Thank You.
Bob Shillabeer  
#2 Posted : 25 November 2010 13:31:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Not sure about any case law that applies specifically to window cleaners but there is a duty upon householders to ensure that so far as is reasonably practicable the area around the building does not pose any threats to the safety of anyone such as window cleaners. The fact that the window cleaner supplies the ladder and operates it there would be a duty upon him to ensure the ladder is safe to use both from a condition of the ladder point of view as well as the ground it is placed upon. If he thinks the land is not safe he should not use the ladder like wise if the ground is unsafe he should not use the ladder on it. There may well be some claim against the householder but the level of contributory cause would ne very high.
MrsBlue  
#3 Posted : 25 November 2010 14:42:53(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Guest

So I'm a window cleaner (presumably self employed) and am still obliged to carry out risk assessments. A householder asks for the windows to be cleaned so the ground should be looked at etc as part of the risk assessment (and what ever obstacles are in the way - plant life statues and gnomes for the safe erection and stability of the ladder. Normal households do not think in terms of this sort of hazard. Therefore, IMO, it is down to the window cleaner to ensure s/he is safe. If then the window cleaner suffers an injury it's down to them. End of story.
Ron Hunter  
#4 Posted : 25 November 2010 15:02:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

"gnomes for the safe erection and stability of the ladder." Doesn't sound like a particularly safe system of work to me, I'd prefer a couple of strapping lads! (Sorry Rich - couldn't resist). Just a few weeks ago, I watched a window cleaner place, with a deft and almost millimetric precision, a (too short) ladder against a 'false' pvc bar in a large double glazed unit. I can only guess that he's being doing that every fortnight for a long time. A week or so later, I saw the glazier at work repairing the failed double-glazed unit...........I can't help wondering if the householder has any inkling who caused the damage. Duty of care works both ways. Householders SHOULD have appropriate insurance, Window Cleaners SHOULD also have appropriate insurance. Do we ask? Do we ensure the window cleaner is registered with our Local Authority Scheme?
Ken Slack  
#5 Posted : 25 November 2010 16:25:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

This is a great question, could easily be one of many other scenarios, would like to hear a HSE inspector comment to get an official view........
frankc  
#6 Posted : 25 November 2010 18:20:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

I only recently gave my new window cleaner some leaflets we give out as part of ladder training informing him of the safe use of ladders. I said they might make some useful reading for him if he has to erect a ladder at an unusual angle due to an obstacle or if he cannot access a window safely and has to over reach.
SW  
#7 Posted : 25 November 2010 19:49:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SW

Thank You all for your replies - got into a discussion earlier about Occupiers Liability and postal workers / condition of path and it went off at a tangent. Again! SW
RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 25 November 2010 20:30:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I agree with Rich777, in that it is up to the window cleaner to identify any potential hazards and not the householder. Any successful claim would be exceptional in my opinion and for a high risk not identified by the occupier eg crocodile in the garden pond.
Ken Slack  
#9 Posted : 26 November 2010 10:34:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

I agree that you would think it would be window cleaners fault if he suffered an injury while cleaning windows on your property, but it just now that simple, take a look at The Occupiers Liability Act 1957 Section 2.
Ken Slack  
#10 Posted : 26 November 2010 10:36:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ken Slack

Sorry, and Section 2-3(b)
RayRapp  
#11 Posted : 26 November 2010 11:07:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Ken The law is rarely simple and there have been many odd decisions in the past. However, in the scenario provided of a window cleaner (principle would also apply to a chimney sweep etc) it is clearly for the window cleaner to assess the risk and control it. The exception being where there is a serious risk which the window cleaner may not be aware of but the occupier was and aforementioned did not warn the window cleaner either verbally or with signage. At the end of the day it is the court who will decided whether the occupier or tradesman was at fault, but I know who my money would be on.
Bob Shillabeer  
#12 Posted : 26 November 2010 15:23:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Our window cleaner has just finished cleaning the windows and I watched him for a few minutes and he has gone from using ladders to using a machine in his vam that pumps the cleaning fluid and rinses the windows without him having to climb ladders. Either he is being lazy (something I don't believe) or he is using a safer technique to get the same results. In fact it is that bit quicker as he hasn't got any ladders to move about. Perhaps all household window cleaners should consider the same.
frankc  
#13 Posted : 28 November 2010 22:22:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
frankc

bob shillabeer wrote:
Our window cleaner has just finished cleaning the windows and I watched him for a few minutes and he has gone from using ladders to using a machine in his vam that pumps the cleaning fluid and rinses the windows without him having to climb ladders. Either he is being lazy (something I don't believe) or he is using a safer technique to get the same results. In fact it is that bit quicker as he hasn't got any ladders to move about. Perhaps all household window cleaners should consider the same.
More and more office windows are cleaned these days by a window cleaner with a telescopic water feed and brush system to comply with the W@H hiearchy, AVOIDING working at height. Must be honest, i'm yet to see it on a domestic property.
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