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RO  
#1 Posted : 08 December 2010 19:29:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RO

We have a reactive roof maintenance fleet who, on occasion need to carry LPG botles for roofwork. The operatives use transit style vans. Can anyone guide me on the following? What size bottles may be transported. Are there limits? Must the bottles be caged in the vans? Must the vans have ventilation? Must the vans have warning stickers on them, if so which stickers. Must the vans have fire extinguishers? if so what type? I just want to ensure that the fleet is road legal
Alex Petrie  
#2 Posted : 08 December 2010 21:58:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Alex Petrie

Sharks, You can get some advice on quantities etc from the Department for Transport - they've a separate department which deals with this and the name escapes me at the minute. Your best source of advice would be from the British Compressed Gases Association, possibly Code of Practice 7. However to answer your questions: 1) No limit that I'm aware of. The only limits exist to control the overall quantity you carry. 2) No - but the cylinders must be secured against falling over. 3) Yes - I wouldn't want a build-up of highly flammable vapour in my van... 4) The vans don't need to have stickers on them unless the volume exceeds 333kg / 1000L (see DfT for precise info.). Each cylinder must have the correct hazard warning symbol displayed - red diamond for LPG and white for oxygen if you carry it. 5) At least one 2kg dry powder extinguisher which should be suitable for use in gas fires (A, B, & C class). Hope that helps.
Ron Hunter  
#3 Posted : 08 December 2010 23:09:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

The safest way to store and transport LPG is in the open air. The easiest way to alert the emergency services to the fact you're carrying gas cylinders is to make sure they're visible. If you want to do all that is reasonably practicable, you have to address the possibility you've got the wrong vans for this work. Extinguishers should go up on the roof with the hot-work activity. You set your client's roof on fire, you want to be able to put it out sharpish, and that the extinguisher is rated for such eventuality. Fire in the vehicle is more likely to be from a source other than the LPG cylinder.
townshend1012  
#4 Posted : 08 December 2010 23:20:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
townshend1012

See this paragraph from the HSE Website. LPG comes under the Carriage of Dangerous Goods Regs which has been superseded by the ADR Regs throughout the EU but essentially say the same thing. Examples of small load application 30. LPG. This is in transport category 2. The "small load threshold" is 333 kg and LPG is LQ0. The result is that all cylinders count towards the load limit, but if that is less than 333 kg, the "minimum" ADR requirements apply. The minimum ADR requirements are that the driver must receive training in what to do in an emergency, a warning orange plate is recommended but not mandatory, the cylinder(s) must be secured in an upright position, some element of temperature control e.g. I would not leave an LPG cylinder inside the van in full sun in the summer, and the obvious ones like no smoking in or near the van. I had to carry out a risk assessment for the transporting of small quantities of petrol which comes under the same regs. I also recommended that mobile phones should be switched off whilst in transit (they should not be used whilst driving anyway) and in the event of an accident, not used until the driver is away from the vehicle.
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 08 December 2010 23:27:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Why would you recommend mobile phones are switched off, townshend1012?
townshend1012  
#6 Posted : 09 December 2010 00:20:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
townshend1012

Because many mobiles contain a transmitter which transmits at up to 10 watts, this might be sufficient to induce a spark which could ignite a gas or fume laden atmosphere. Has anybody ever carried out a test to say it will never happen? or do we accept the risk. A friend of mine was very nearly killed when his yacht caught fire. It was never proved but it was suspected that a mobile phone might have caused a flash in either a petrol or gas laden atmosphere in the bottom of the boat.
IanS  
#7 Posted : 09 December 2010 06:45:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
IanS

plenty of evidence available to debunk the mobile phone as a source of ignition if you look and none proving it is. presumably you ban the mixing of fibres in clothing worn by drivers and passengers (might generate static charges)
Ron Hunter  
#8 Posted : 09 December 2010 09:31:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Not forgetting the ignition circuit and hot exhaust in the vehicle itself. I suggest the biggest potential risk from mobile phones and such is the unlikely event of it falling onto a hard surface, the battery coming loose and striking a surface in such a way as to create a spark. In that scenario, it matters not a jot whether it's on or off. Can anyone recall the outcome of the Top Gear experiment with 100 mobiles in a petrol filled caravan?
Ron Hunter  
#9 Posted : 09 December 2010 09:39:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Sorry, not 'Top Gear', it was "Brainiac Science Abuse". In fairness, even the HSE fell for this Urban Myth.
m  
#10 Posted : 09 December 2010 10:20:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
m

Don't forget that LPG is heavier than air so any ventilation needs to be at the bottom, not a roof vent. The preferred solution, as stated above, is a pick up truck
edwardh  
#11 Posted : 10 December 2010 13:38:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
edwardh

UKLPG [previously the LPGA] publish a Code of Practice CoP 27 "transportation of LPG cylinders on vehicles" this is purchasable from UKLPG. Both CALOR and FLOGAS have free guidance on there respective sites try: http://www.calor.co.uk/d...pg-cylinders-by-road.pdf or, http://www.flogas.co.uk/gas-safety/transport/ Both have advice about driver training, warning decals, ventilation, fire precautions, use of gas-tight plugs etc etc. [and both say its better to use an open vehicle].
phargreaves04  
#12 Posted : 11 December 2010 12:30:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
phargreaves04

Hi, There is no limit to the size of the LPG Cylinders, LPG comes under Transport Category 2, so as previously stated up to 333kgs can be transported without coming fully under the CDG/ADR Regs. This would mean there is no requirement to mark the van or placard the vehicle with orange plates. Ideally open air vehicle i.e.vented, 2KG fire extinguisher. The markings on the LPG Cylinders must have the flammable gas mark i.e. 100mmx100mm label Class 2.1. HoweveriIf you were to exceed the 333kg then the vehicle must be placarded i.e. orange plates, fire extinguishers, chocks, torch, etc also instructions in writing for the driver in what to do in an emergency, the driver would require an ADR Licence as well for the respective Class i.e. class 2
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