A client has advised me that they have recently been burgled via their fire door (push bar) and asked if they could protect their security with a lockable gate which would remain unlocked during the working day. Not sure about this one and would appreciate any advice and some sensible options to improve security but would also allow an unrestricted means of escape. Premises is a two story building with a workshop at ground level with three fire exits opening to a forecourt. Thanks in advance. Ray

Thanks for your speedy response it is much appreciated. I personally could not see anything wrong with the suggestion on the proviso that it was properly managed, which you have confirmed - cheers.

Ditto, The padlock used to lock it shut out of hours is used to lock it back open when the building is in use.

Don't forget to "check the checker". It's life safety.

Thanks Chris (and others) but not sure how far you can go with quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Perhaps locking the gates open is the best solution.

Hi Ray, This is not a new issue has been around as long as Push Bars I suppose. In supermarkets and places of public entertainment they used to chain and padlock the push bars together to prevent unauthorised access. It was incumbent on the appointed person maybe the manager to ensure that all doors were free of locks once the premises was opened each day. He did this by using a "chain board" situated in his office, every door was number or named and had a hook on which the chain could hang. He didn't need to go out of his office to check if the doors were unlocked he lifted his head to look at the board, he then completed a confirmation form which he submitted to HQ confirming each day these doors complied with the local legislation. I think the reference to human involvement is typical of our attitude to safety, we all drive down the road each day separated only by fresh air, are we now saying we need to construct barriers between us driving down the high street? Conkers bonkers springs to mind. Regards Wizard

We had a similar issue a while back, resulting in bolts being fitted to fire exits. While I felt uncomfortable with the idea initially we introduced checking procedures to ensure the relvant doors were unbolted beofre work commences. It seems to work well and the insurer's at least are happy. We have a RR(FS)O audit by the local brigade on Monday so watch this space. We also have other doors that have standard locks and I recall some debate about having doors 'capable of being opened without the use of a key' We have the same check on these doors and a 'break glass' key box adjacent. On the initial fire inspection back in 2003 the inspecting officer was very pragmatic in this respect. We even discussed removing existing panic bars as some exits ended up being used fairly frequently (We are low occupancy with no public access issues so the FO view was that the risk was low (taking into account our RA and procedures). As for 'human error' and failure of the responsible person to turn up, surely the keyholder is a responsible person (why else would you trust them with a key). The keyholder comes in, unlocks all the doors, records on log and the senior responsible person (manager) checks this and chases up if necessary. It works for us but I will let you know the Inpecting Officers view on Monday.

Taylor, Many thanks for your advice, obviously a man of experience and indepth reading in the field of "human behaviour" and "heirarcy of control", please advise which books should I read, or they could make a very warming xmas pressie. Wizard

Maybe someone should put 'How to Communicate with Power, Diplomacy and Tact Essential Skills for Effective Communication ' on his reading list....... ;)

Ray, sorry wrong end of the stick, was a bit perturbed at the 'you need to read' remark against Wizard, must have put it across wrong. Merry Xmas to you too

Jon B Thanks for the additional information and I am glad to hear that the locking of doors for security does not impinge on the safe operation of the fire doors under certain prescribed conditions. Hopefully it has put this one to bed. With regards to non-fire exit doors, it is my opinion that these do not require the same level of safety as for nominated fire exits for obvious reasons. Point taken Moderator, 'tis the season of goodwill - can I now hit the 'send' button?