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firesafety101  
#1 Posted : 22 December 2010 10:21:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

A situation existing right now whereby the Designer has issued the pre construction information and requires to see the construction phase plan for approval. I stress he is the Designer, the CDM-C is a different person working in a different office in a different city. As far as I can see the CDM-C will not see the CPP, I haven't been asked to email it to him. Over to you for opinions please.
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 22 December 2010 10:34:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Neither the Client, Designer or CDM-C are required to "approve" the CPP. The Client is required to satisfy himself that the CPP is sufficiently developed to enable the construction phase to proceed, and the CDM-C should be in a position to advise in that respect. What may be missing here is a confirmation or developed method statement for some specific element of the construction. If this was an absolute, it should have been a specific "question" within the pre-construction information, prompting appropriate response from the Principal Contractor in his initial CPP. In that instance the CDM-C and the Designer may have a role in confirming to the Client that the issue has been suitable developed. If you're in the loop of fetching and carrying here, there has surely been a serious breakdown in Project communication and coordination across duty holders here, if not a dereliction of duty. Things may be in a sorry state if at a late stage someone is seeking an answer to a question that no-one has actually asked!
bob youel  
#3 Posted : 22 December 2010 10:35:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

speak to the client as there may be some sort of 'deal' between the designer & them that U are not aware of irrespective of the law We all know that under the law the designer does not approve nor even need to see the the clients /PC's CPP additonally the CDMC does not appear to be doing their job
firesafety101  
#4 Posted : 22 December 2010 10:51:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Thanks chaps for the quick response. I was brought in last Friday to produce the CPP by midday today. It's getting a bit close now and I still await lots of information from the PC. I could email the CPP to the designer now and hope he approves it, after all it only has to be suitable as an initial plan. Right now it is more than that. My thoughts are - what if he does not approve it? I could then raise the issue and bring in the CDM-C but that will probably rock the boat. Welfare has not been organised but that only takes a short time to order a cabin with plumbing and electrical connection. A phone call could sort that out. The project is due to start 4th January. (Last minute.com or what?).
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 22 December 2010 11:02:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

You do need to make that call to the CDM-C and confirm the specifics that the Designer is concerned about - the detail of which should of course already be in the pre-construction information. As you say, if the issue the Designer is concerned with arises later in the Project, this could be agreed and managed later. It would seem unlikely this would be something to prevent initial mobilisation, but may be (e.g.) and early issue associated with safe demolition of a structure. I'm slightly bothered that you seem to be somehow "disengaged" from the PC here (not forgetting the "time allowed" to develop the CPP). If the PC is required to develop some specific method, I do hope you won't fall into the trap of attempting to write that for them.
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 22 December 2010 11:06:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Chris Not sure what exact role you are undertaking but, the PC is the organisation responsible for the design of the CPP. As stated previously, there is no requirement for the Designer, Client or CDM-C to 'approve' the CPP. That said, the process is normally to submit the CPP to the CDM-C and/or Client for review and comment. The CPP remains the property of the PC to implement and update as appropriate.
Hally  
#7 Posted : 22 December 2010 11:08:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hally

ChrisBurns wrote:
Thanks chaps for the quick response. I was brought in last Friday to produce the CPP by midday today. It's getting a bit close now and I still await lots of information from the PC. I could email the CPP to the designer now and hope he approves it, after all it only has to be suitable as an initial plan. Right now it is more than that. My thoughts are - what if he does not approve it? I could then raise the issue and bring in the CDM-C but that will probably rock the boat. Welfare has not been organised but that only takes a short time to order a cabin with plumbing and electrical connection. A phone call could sort that out. The project is due to start 4th January. (Last minute.com or what?).
We also have lastminute.com Went with my Production Director to a school site in West Sussex last friday and they've asked us to start on 4th January. Not even placed the order yet for stock that has to be made and then powder coated. We close today so stock won't be made until w/c 4th Jan. Powder coaters closed same day as our visit...
SP900308  
#8 Posted : 22 December 2010 11:15:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SP900308

This thread paints a very poor picture about understanding and commitment to CDM2007! Simon
firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 22 December 2010 12:10:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

The commitment to CDM Regs still has a long way to go, in my opinion and experience. I have been brought in because the company's H&S person left the company a while ago and they then realised they haven't a clue. This project is late starting, almost one year and all required info i.e. pre const info, was issued ages ago. I had to start again and ask for the Pre Const. stuff last Friday. I will not write any rams, just been told we have until 2 pm to get it in. Nearly there.
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 22 December 2010 16:31:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Good news - the CPP and other stuff was good enough to get the project started on 4th Jan. The PC eventually got heavily involved writing method statements and finding other info to send, perhaps they were battered by the weight of information sent? The project itself is all installation, although CDM and notifiable there is very little actual construction work involved. Thanks for every one's contribution. All the very best for the merry (hic) Christmas and a very safe 2011. Chris
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