It is your companies responsibility to ensure that those self employed people are properly trained and competent.

We are aware that the employer is responsible for paying for an employees training where it is necessary to carry out their work.

Who pays for the self employed persons training is not really a HS issue, this is contractual.
Steve

What Steve is saying is that you are responsible for making sure that they are trained before you use them as contractors. You aren't actually responsible for training them or for paying for their training.

However the exact mechanics of how this works will depend on what your contract with them says and how specialist the training is.

For example if you use a contractor and require him to be a trained fork lift truck driver you would obviously expect him to be trained already, but you might put him through a site assessment to ensure he was trained to your standard. You would not normally charge his employer (or him) for this assessment since it's your specific additional site requirement. Same would usually apply to a site induction course.

On the other hand if a training requirement was very specialist (e.g. the petrol station working?) it is possible you might simply include the contractors in your own training sessions. Again you are not obliged to pay for this (and could in fact charge the contractor if he agreed to this)

I am inclined to agree that this is probably largely a contractual matter, but niggling away in the back of my mind is that there may be some case law that related to self employed workers on a building site that had been working for a particular builder for many years, and who were deemed to be employees for the purposes of health and safety, as there had been a significant long term relationship. I can’t recall the case, but others may be able to. Information etc required under S2 would have to be provided (Swan Hunter)

Listen to and take note of John M and Phil R especially and the other postings as by the sounds of it these people are not self employed but as yet your company has not been caught. Caught is the word as the tax man and the social security man are not easy going as is the HSE and a company will get a large back dated bill [if not a fine as well as the 'ignorance is no defence' situation is used by such areas all the time!] should these people find out about the 'employment' arrangement that U have

Technically I do not know of legislation that actualy states that an employer shall train self employed but I am sure that there is some contractual case law and probably some other case law that covers the situation and the 'implication' is there

Ferguson v Dawson and Partners [1976] may be the case you are referring to. Although Self-Employed, ferguson was deemed to be under the control of Dawson & Partners under the Master and Servant relationship and so was an Employee so far as the claim for damages was concerned.

Been unable to find a decent link, but it's in this lot:

http://home.freeuk.net/m...rley/caselaw/caselaw.htm

So, in essence, its down to the level of control over the 'self-employed' person by the Employer that will define his status so far as H&S is concerned. From the depths of my memory, I recall also that from a taxation point of view, that to be truly 'self-employed' that person must have the ability to refuse or accept work from more than one party and, to a lesser extent, determine their own pay and conditions. If this person has been with you for a number of years, HM Revenue & Customs may question his independence.

Hope this helps!

Penman & Sommerlad.
Daily Mirror.
Today.
Irrespective of h&s, your training "self employed" may
well be required but is another indicator that your
"contractors" are employees.
I work the loss to tax and ni to be about 5k/yr.
Average earnings.
Which your company will be repaying, if caught.
Of course, you save on holiday pay etc.0

Pegasus

Just to add a little to other postings. These people will almost certainly be regarded as employees and you are lucky that they have not yet recognised their case for holiday pay etc. Long term self employed consultants are beginning to realise their situation and no doubt operatives will follow. Your HR person should have picked this up and no doubt your petroleum client may do so shortly.

Bob

If it is decided that training is required I respectfully suggest
That either you tell them to do it themselves or notify them
That training will br provided, and charged, and invoiced properly.
When in hole: Stop digging.