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Matt Garwood  
#1 Posted : 14 January 2011 10:53:26(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Matt Garwood

All - wonder if you could help.... I act for a bank who operate in the city. They employ an external maintenance contractor to carryout all their maintenance for the property they occupy. The bank purchases potentially hazardous equipment (e.g genie lifts, circular saws, routers, bailers, compactors) etc which are in turn used and maintained by the contractor - NOT the banks employees. What level of H+S responsibility does the bank maintain? I assuming normal contractor management processes apply and that the bank does not need to retain lengthy procedures for the use, maintenance and management of this equipment? Your thoughts / experience would be much appreciated.
Ron Hunter  
#2 Posted : 14 January 2011 11:14:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Matt, I would have thought those in the financial sector would have a more enlightened approach to spending money! First consideration: "why buy when you can hire" and second: "why provide specialist kit to the third party contractor when they can provide it for themselves"!? The bank would appear to be taking on expenditure and responsibilities that are wholly uncessary. As "owner" and purchaser, the Bank cannot escape responsibility for ensuring the equipment is fit for purpose and remains safe in use, and this will necessarily involve inspection and maintenance (PUWER duties) and considerations around HAVS, noise levels, PAT etc. Providing this equipment (presumably insisting that it is used?) only increases liability in the event of an incident involving third parties, it certainly does not diminish any duty on the Bank as an employer. My advice is to negotiate the sale of this mobile and hand-held plant and equipment to trusted contractors and to lean on those in charge to change the overall approach. There are simple arguments of costs and reduced liability that should make this an easy task!
Safety Smurf  
#3 Posted : 14 January 2011 11:31:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

ron hunter wrote:
Matt, I would have thought those in the financial sector would have a more enlightened approach to spending money! First consideration: "why buy when you can hire" and second: "why provide specialist kit to the third party contractor when they can provide it for themselves"!? The bank would appear to be taking on expenditure and responsibilities that are wholly uncessary. As "owner" and purchaser, the Bank cannot escape responsibility for ensuring the equipment is fit for purpose and remains safe in use, and this will necessarily involve inspection and maintenance (PUWER duties) and considerations around HAVS, noise levels, PAT etc. Providing this equipment (presumably insisting that it is used?) only increases liability in the event of an incident involving third parties, it certainly does not diminish any duty on the Bank as an employer. My advice is to negotiate the sale of this mobile and hand-held plant and equipment to trusted contractors and to lean on those in charge to change the overall approach. There are simple arguments of costs and reduced liability that should make this an easy task!
I'm going to take a guess and say the equipment is owned and permanently on site because of access issues. Is that correct Matt?
Matt Garwood  
#4 Posted : 14 January 2011 11:49:30(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Matt Garwood

Yes you're kind of right - the bank is obviously a permanent resident of the property, whereas the contractor is a temporary entity and is therefore unwilling to purchase high value items. Selling items to the contractor is not an option and hiring would be OK for some items but not for others - due to size, frequency of use and access. How do hire companies deal with this issue if not through a 'contract' that passes responsibility to the hirer for how the equipmet is used while in their posession?
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 14 January 2011 13:11:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

I was perhaps slightly off-beam with that initial reply. You're correct in that the onus is very much on the contractor to have the lengthy procedures and documentation etc. However onus remains with the Bank to ensure SFARP the competency of that appointment and ultimately that the machines are actually maintaned in a safe condition. (.e. not to do things, but to ensure they are done by others on their behalf) Specific onus on the Bank at time of purchase to ensure machines are safe for use and fit for purpose. I gather some of this kit is bulky and semi-permanently installed, however I would still suggest that hand-held-tools be left for the contractor to procure. There are potential liabilities w.r.t to HAVS etc. here that can be avoided.
Safety Smurf  
#6 Posted : 14 January 2011 13:16:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Safety Smurf

I can see the advantages of having all of the equipment permanently on site. Get a 'man with a van' into the square mile, park up, unload, do the job and the reverse or get a man turn up off the tube with his hands in his pockets. It wouldn't take long before those tools were paid off.
tabs  
#7 Posted : 14 January 2011 13:41:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
tabs

This is common practice and the contracts are very high value and don't usually involve a man in a van :-) A permanent onsite presence of several dozen people (sometimes hundreds) involves a lot of kit and most banks don't really want all of that to disappear when they change supplier. So the bank normally funds all but the menial purchases. Hiring is a limited option but does happen - the costs generally go up though and year on year will exceed any reasonable liability not covered by insurances involved in owning said equipment. Part of the main contract is a devolution of responsibilities (not liabilities) for PUWER etc., to the incumbent company providing all the services. The bank will retain a liability but in reality it is well mitigated and of limited consequence.
djupnorth  
#8 Posted : 14 January 2011 21:04:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
djupnorth

Matt, Has the Bank considered leasing the equipment to the contractor for the term of the contract (with a stipulation in the lease that the kit remains at a particular address). That way control of the equipment passes to the contractor, as does liability under health and safety law. The equipment however remains the property of the Bank as it stays on site and full ownership transfers back to the Bank at the end of the contract. There are enough City solicitors who will be able to draft up an equipment lease quickly enough. I hope this helps. Regards. DJ
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