I am looking for advice
As a contracts manager I wrote a leatter of complaint with reference to the lack of health and safety management structure and processes within the company. The board created a new role to create and implement OH&S management system and processes, that was awarded to me, that was in 2008. I have subsequently completed this task based on HSG 65 & OHSAS 18001:2007.

Last week I managed to get the board together to sit down and convene the first ever Annual Occupational Health and safety review.

I was then gobsmacked that one of the MD's stated that his company have historically never placed a named person in charge of health and safety, and do not wish to do so. After all of the graft of designing and implmenting a management manual which they signed up to and authorised they are walking backwards.

I am at the end of my tether as they are not listening to reason, having highlighted both the requirements of HSG65 & !8001, they still have a very protective and blinkered approach - Their reasoning is that they do not want any of their employees taking a fall if anything untoward occurs????? They do not understand that I am already in that position due to what I do, whether named or not.

My dilemma is that I am the only competent person within the company with any formal qualifications in leadership (Level 6) Health and safety (Level 4). The other MD stated that he would now become the Top Management Appointed person for health and safety - No H&S qualifications.

It is myself that conducts all aspects of the OH&S on a day to day basis, conducts training, management meetings maintenance of the OHSMS etc etc.

My questions to you all are: Can a board director with no formal OH&S qualifications assume the role of Top management appointed person (OHSAS18001:2007)?

Does the TMA have to be a board member?

How do I persuade the board that roles and responsibilities have to be defined, and to that end also need competency?

This has really got to me as I have done the above in my own time for the company, and am left totally bewilded on how I can now conduct my role successfully in this environment.

Thanks for the reply Ians,
Q1 is in fact all board members sign the policy statement and all have no formal h&S qualification.

Q2 I am the safety & Quality Administrator who co-ordinates and controls the OH&S issues - also advises the board members and other employees.

I am designated Administrator as the Board believe that implies I have no responsibility - which if I was to list what I do is completely incorrect. I do have formal OH&S Qualifications NVQ level four.

My problem is that for a management system to operate correctly you need to have defined the roles and responsibilities and that includes competent roles and responsibilities, without that you cannot have a well structured management system.

To be the senior person responsible for H&S you do not require any form of competence in H&S. The MD of many companies do not hold such competence and they employ an advosir to provide them with the information and guidance necessary to implement a workable policy. You say they are now disputing the position that put you in place in the first instance, that shows me there is a serious lack of control at the top of the organisation and that is very worrying. The MD signs the H&S Policy not as an expert in H&S but as the head of the organisation. You have developed a management system based on accepted methodologies but they now feel they do not want it because it could lead to other problems. They run the company but you need to reinforce the reason behind having a management system.

Thanks Bob, You are correct when you say it is worrying?
I have tried in vain to explain the roles and responsibilities; whether written or not.
My role has evolved to where I control all aspects of OH&S, yet the so called leadership - stick to their principles when they started the company; they are very victorian in their attidude and I am attempting to bring them through to this century.

There is a basic explanation to this as the two Joint managing directors do not trust there three directors to do their job and this mistrust roles down through the ranks - but I must percivere and work around the inbuilt problems.
I have advised them on leadership problems within the company as well, I am also competent in this field also (Level 6 management & leadership). But there seems to be no way though to them.

It is difficult bordering on intollerable that they do not accept advice, for my own role I need clarification on my repsonsibilities if I am to carry on working for them, if they do not acknowledge my position within the structure then I may be forced to leave, not an option I take lightly.

Sorry Grant I tried to post a response but got lost somewhere on the website, how I don't know but will respond and hopefully it will arrive where it was intended.

Sorry to hear you are considering leaving the company, espcialy in the current economic climate. You can only advise the MDs, there is avery old saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. With that in mind continue to make your point up until they say stop, that's when you know you are wating your time and you will then need to make a decision to duck or stand your ground. Hope everything works out for the better.

To look at the issue slightly different from Kieran's profoundness, the MDs are the duty holders when it comes to health and safety and whether they know anything about the subject is irrelevant as it is they who are liable for prosecution. It is of course in their self-interest to have a basic understanding on what and how they are trying to achieve. However, without the buy-in of top management it is difficult to achieve the desired goals - heads in sand, springs to mind.

Good luck.

Indeed Kieran. I was not criticising your post but providing a different slant, albeit obvious to some but maybe not to others. Sometimes the direct route provides the mot efficient result.

Step back and evaluate to see if you have done all that is reasonably practicable to do and then get on with other things as that's all U are expected to do

Irrespective of qualifications etc a director is liable for their company and that's that irrespective of what they say or want ---- e.g. I bet that the 'Directors' are not all qualified accountants but they are liable etc for poor accounting areas and so on and on.

On a good note they must like U as U are still in employment in this environment so sell H&S via the positive e.g. Explain & demonstrate how H&S risk assessments etc can make money, as I know they can, in many circumstances