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riskybizz  
#1 Posted : 18 January 2011 16:28:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
riskybizz
Good afternoon all,

Does anyone have any information as to the storage of diesel inside a premises?
Also the amount that can be "safely" stored in a van.

Thanks in advance,
Steve
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boblewis  
#2 Posted : 18 January 2011 23:10:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis
I doubt you will get any approval for a new installation but I have seen 500 litre storage in a large warehouse type building that had a bund retro-fitted. It was installed in the late 1970s.

So far as vehicles are concerned 1 gallon internally or up to 5 gal. on an open back vehicle rings a bell somewhere

Bob
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Heather Collins  
#3 Posted : 19 January 2011 08:55:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins
Bob - what makes you think a diesel storage installation needs "approval"?

Steve - your main concerns will be environmental (especially if your proposed storage containers / tanks are outside) and fire safety.

Try this link for a useful flow chart http://www.oilstorageregs.co.uk/
and the Environment Agency site for what the environmental legal requirements are http://www.environment-a.../topics/oil/default.aspx
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chas  
#4 Posted : 19 January 2011 08:57:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas
The env Agency document PPG2 [Apr 2010] gives extensive guidance on the storage of oils (incl diesel) above ground. The DfT also produced guidance on the carriage of diesel and petrol a while back but not sure if it is still available. The info is on their websites. Hope this helps.
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Heather Collins  
#5 Posted : 19 January 2011 08:58:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins
This may help with the vehicle questions. Note quite a lot of it relates to petrol so you need to pick and choose!

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fi...osion/petroleum/faqs.htm
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Andrew W Walker  
#6 Posted : 19 January 2011 09:21:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker
riskybizz wrote:
Good afternoon all,

Does anyone have any information as to the storage of diesel inside a premises?
Also the amount that can be "safely" stored in a van.

Thanks in advance,
Steve


From an ADR perspective.

1.1.3.3 of ADR 2011 states that:

The provisions laid down in ADR do not apply to the carriage of:

(a) Fuel contained in the tanks of a vehicle performing a transport operation and destined for its propulsion.

It then goes on to say that the fuel can be in fixes or portable tanks. The maximum quantity per transport unit (vehicle) is 60 litres.

Hope this helps.

Andy
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chas  
#7 Posted : 19 January 2011 11:12:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chas
The DfT Dangerous Goods Guidance Note 1 regarding the transportation of petrol, kerosene & diesel that I have on file (is dated 2004 and may have been superceded) says that Diesel is a Transport Category 3 substance and 1000 litres can be transported by vehicle in UN approved containers. Petrol however is very different and 333 litres can be transported.

Although when carrying petrol for private use only 2 metal containers up to 10 litres capacity each and 2 five litre plastic containers can be transported.

Having now looked again at the DfT website I can no longer find the Guidance Note referred to above, so have things now changed? If anyone knows and if the DfT have guidance elsewhere I would very much like to know.
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Heather Collins  
#8 Posted : 19 January 2011 11:34:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins
Chas - try the HSE link I posted above. It has all the information you quote from the DfT GN.
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Andrew W Walker  
#9 Posted : 19 January 2011 11:40:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker
riskybizz wrote:
Also the amount that can be "safely" stored in a van.

Thanks in advance,
Steve


Can you please quantify the amount that you are thinking to have in the vehicle, and its use?

Will the fuel be for the vehicle itself? Or will it be transported to fuel another vehicle or appliance?

Thanks

Andy
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boblewis  
#10 Posted : 19 January 2011 19:37:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis
Heather

My words were based on the view, potentially erroneous, that bullk storage was envisaged and to my knowledge this is very difficult to get past building control and the fire officer on the fire risk assessment

Bob
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Heather Collins  
#11 Posted : 19 January 2011 23:19:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins
It's not necessary to get anything "past the fire officer" Bob - they don't "approve" storage installations any more since DSEAR came in and replaced the old Licensing regime. Even if they did, diesel isn't classified as a dangerous substance within the meaning of DSEAR as the flash point is too high.

You're more likely to have an issue with the Environment Agency but their requirements aren't hard to follow and I've found them very helpful to talk to.

Not sure why you mention Building Control for diesel storage? What issue have you had there?
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ITER  
#12 Posted : 20 January 2011 09:00:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ITER
Agree with Heather.

Diesel is of very limited concern with respect to DSEAR. Its flashpoint is too high, greater than 55deg C.

Its usually only a problem if in a pressurised pipe etc and a spray leak can occur either on to a hot surface or if it forms a mist with a suitable source of ignitiom otherwise available.

In this situation, the environmental aspects are more significant as already indicated by Heather.

Why do you think Russian T34 tanks in WW2 had diesel engines? Much less likely to burn the crew.
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