Looking for a bit of clarification from my peers here - we had a student who visited a business next door to college and slipped on ice banging his head. The IP was seen at scene and wound cleaned, IP asked to lie down as feeling light headed but no facility at this place so he was transported next door to our building where he was seen in common room by first aider who rightly so advised as head wound we call ambulance. Ambulance arrived and paramedic advised IP attent hospital and they took them there.

Once I completed accident investigation I offered to supply business owner with copies of report so he could submit RIDDOR he thought I would submit but I said as the duty holder and as accident happened to member of public on his site and was subsequently taken to hospital he should report.

He then took advice from his external H&S competent person who said as IP wasn't kept in overnight no report. My interpretation of regs is that a member of public being taken from scene to hospital it is reportable, even if no treatment given. Treatment was given in this case.

Thought please

Hi,

Just give RIDDOR a call they are really helpfull and will tell you if it should be reported and whom should do so. Then you have it from the horses mouth. Dont worry they dont ask you for any company details they are just there to advise you on the correct course of action.

Hope that helps

Cres

I also think is reportable, however, it is not your problem or responsibility to ensure it actually gets reported. By informing them of their duties you've done enough. Just keep a record of what you did.

Their H&S competent person is incorrect.

RIDDOR section 3(1)(c) applies. Schedule 1, the definition of major injuries does not apply.

It is reportable, provided it did take place on their premises (and not on the public footpath in between).

Doesn't the 'member of the public being taken to hospital 'criterion only apply if they are taken there directly from the scene? Which they weren't in this case.

Snap - oops!

For a non-employee accident to be reported two criteria have to be met, not just one, i.e. it has to have arisen out of a "work activity" (debatable definition) & they are taken straight to hospital by whatever means.

The situation outlined in the first instance does not make it clear whether the slip on the ice was because of some defect in the organisation's systems of clearing ice, snow, or that they slipped on a rogue patch. It could well be that the business occupies a large area where it would be impossible to eradicate all of the icy areas, especially with the severe weather experienced recently.

Therefore until there is more clarification, I would say maybe!!

Not sure of that one. I go to Tesco as a customer to buy a sandwich. I slip, trip or fall due to the condition of the premises, slippery floor, dodgy floor tile' wobbly step, snow and ice etc etc etc. I am taken diretly to hospital. Reportable?

For the answer see RIDDOR reg 2 interpretation

"an accident or a dangerous occurrence which arises out of or in connection with work shall include a reference to an accident, or as the case may be, a dangerous occurrence attributable to the manner of conducting an undertaking, the plant or substances used for the purposes of an undertaking and the condition of the premises so used or any part of them.".

Note 'conducting an undertaking' and the last bit - condition of premises!

Bob,

Think of this from the angle of the shop premises - which is a workplace.

If they have caused the accident to happen, i.e. inadequate cleaning regime; & the person as a non-employee is taken directly to hospital, then the incident is reportable to the Local Authority under RIDDOR.

Bob, you miss the point. It is NOT that MY visit to get my sandwich is in connection with work but whether the CAUSE of the accident was!!!!!!

Whether you like it or not, accidents to people NOT AT WORK (i.e. me getting my sandwich or going in to buy a pair of shoes, a bunch of flowers for Granny etc etc) ARE reportable in the circumstances where the IP is taken DIRECTLY to hospital and where the accident arisies out of work, the definition of which I have supplied already, but will tidy it up to see if that helps with understanding.

"an accident that arises out of or in connection with work includes an accident attributable to the manner of conducting an undertaking, and the condition of the premises so used or any part of them.".

2 of our enforcement officers, one with 30 + years experience say that the accident in the scenario that I posted, would be reportable, for the reasons that I have alluded to. But what do they know?

Right, now off to put my blinkers back on!

So Bob, a customer in a DIY shop hit & killed by a FLT isn't reportable?

I think you'll find it is (was)!

There seems to be more than one misunderstanding, if someone not in employment has an accident when in a shop whether run over by a FLT or not, of course it is reported to the HSE or LA but not under RIDDOR. The accident would be investigated by the HSE/LA, but RIDDOR is about gathering information about accidents by the HSE for recording the number of accidents not for investigating them.

I love it when people start quoting stuff at each other.
Regs at dawn, ten paces apart!

Bob, I despair. Please, please, please read RIDDOR. RIDDOR also includes reporting requirements for people NOT AT WORK. Reg 3(1)c This really is VERY basic stuff.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l73.pdf Please read paragrpah 35 in particular examples a and b. It couldn't be simpler!

35 In the following examples the accidents, which involve people who are not at work, would all be regarded as ‘arising out of or in connection with work’. As a result, if one of the people died or suffered an injury leading to them being taken to a hospital, regulation 3(1)(c) would apply and the death or injury must be reported:
(a) someone shopping who was involved in an accident at an escalator in a shop, where the accident was attributable to the design or condition of the escalator;
(b) a patient/resident in a nursing or residential care home who tripped and fell over an obstruction such as an electrical cable lying across a floor in the home;
(c) a member of the public who, while visiting a factory, was overcome by fumes which escaped accidentally from a process being carried on there;
(d) a pupil or student, who was involved in an accident attributable in some way to:
(i) work organisation (eg by a teacher);
(ii) plant;
(iii) a substance; or
(iv) the condition of the premises.

All 92 pages of it.

Right then. I vote that we stop 'Bob bashing'. For today at least! And for this thread! :-)