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Woods29068  
#1 Posted : 25 January 2011 11:00:26(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Woods29068

My understanding is if a item of plant (normaly an excavator) damages a HV cable the machine provides little protection from electrocution if the circuit breakers do not kick in immediately. However there would be an element of protection from the molten copper/aluminium produced by the resulting explosion.

Basically if your not killed immediately you might as well get out of the cab and evacuate?

Am I correct and can anyone point me in the direction of further reading/info.

Thanks in advance.

Rob
RayRapp  
#2 Posted : 25 January 2011 15:56:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I am not an expert in this field, however there are two main types of electrical services - high and low voltage. The low voltage is potentially more dangerous because it is fused and therefore the current does not cut out immediately as it does with high voltage cables. I am sure one of my more learned colleagues could give you a better answer to your question.
SteveL  
#3 Posted : 25 January 2011 16:29:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

If you are in an excavator and you hit a cable then the best thing to do is stay there, electricity goes the easiest way to earth through the machines arm and out the tracks, or in a Jake the legs. Do not climb out of the machine, you may be able to jump clear. If the arm is not welded to the cable then move it away, do not let persons near the cable and inform the owner.
HSG47 Avoiding Danger from Underground Services, should be the benchmark for not hitting services.
CliveLowery  
#4 Posted : 25 January 2011 16:59:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
CliveLowery

Rob,

Zurich Insurance have a good set of guidelines regarding cable strikes and actions to take.

I seem to recall advice is stay with/on machine until confirmation that power is isolated has been received.

Remember that the Utililities company will attempt to re-initialise the system, so onlookers must also be kept away.

If you google underground service strikes you should get some good info.

Regards

Clive
paul.skyrme  
#5 Posted : 25 January 2011 20:04:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

RayRapp, has it right here are LV & HV services.
BOTH have auto reclosing breakers.
IF LV then you would probably be safe to leave the machine, however, this depends on the exact situation.
Remember we are all sitting near LV at our computers as LV distribution is continued right to the back of a PC/Monitor.
HV "stops" at the local substation.
IF HV then this is doubtful depending on the situation
Not checked the links though I have seen some good stuff from HSE on this.
Report any underground cable stikes IMMEDIATELY to the local DNO / Nationl Grid, you would probably not know whose cable it is so report it to the 1st number you find they will do the rest!

HOWEVER, regardless of my comments unless your operator is SURE of what he has hit then they should stay put as the metal machine with (probably) metal tracks &/or bucket will "act" as a "Faraday Cage" and protect the operator from electrocution as the current will be conducted through the machine.
However, it could also set fire to the machine depending on the cable hit, &/or the machine condition/configuration or the cable could explode / catch fire so then you have a different scenario!
Plant trainer  
#6 Posted : 25 January 2011 21:23:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Plant trainer

As a trainer of mobile plant operaors for the last twelve years the advice has always been to remain on the machine until somone in authority confirms that the power source is isolated, don't forget that many small excavators run on rubber tracks and that if the operator dismounts they will become the earthing route. Correct planning and control measures should prevent this from happening in the first place. Full cat scan, utility surveys etc, and permit to dig procedures should always be in place before breaking ground.
paul.skyrme  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2011 21:56:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Plant Trainer,
Good points, however, CAT scans are not that good really!
They are so error prone that on times they are worse then useless!
Obviously this is NOT your fault, it is just a limitation of the science of the systems.
Rubber tracks is a good point, I took the machines to be larger as these tend to be on mini & micro machines, which however are being used more often by large contracts/contractors.
One thing though, if the metal bucket is in the ground this will provide a better electrcial earth path than the machine/operator "in general" & the rubber tracks will prevent the machine becoming live from a cable below these.
boblewis  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2011 23:55:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Paul

Used properly and with other information CAT scans are good indicators - problem is that most are badly done. Best is to get proper service surveys done by a competent service surveying organisation I have had no real problems with their work. The failures have been operatives who thought they knew better and waved the CAT scanner to prove the survey wrong - it was not.

Bob
Plant trainer  
#9 Posted : 26 January 2011 14:22:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Plant trainer

I agree with the Catscan comments but would also reiterate that all control measures should be followed, service plans, etc searched and advice sought, at the end of the day using the excavator is a means of speeding up the excavation, whenever doubt exists about the location of any services the only choice is caution, use mechanical means to loosen the surface then carefully hand dig until the services are located.
Time spent doing the job safely (if slowly) is far better than delays while utility companies turn out to make repairs or far worse time and money lost and hardship caused following an accident.
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