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Nick House  
#1 Posted : 31 January 2011 17:37:32(UTC)
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HSE have finally released the consultation document. Only 2 weeks late, but hey - at least it's here now...
Bob Shillabeer  
#2 Posted : 31 January 2011 19:47:36(UTC)
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Bob Shillabeer

Not worth the wait I'm afraid, page after page of dross questions and only one change three days to seven. Won't make much difference with the level of non reporting that goes on.
Nick House  
#3 Posted : 01 February 2011 09:38:53(UTC)
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Having read through it last night; unfortunately, I have to say that I agree.
Zyggy  
#4 Posted : 01 February 2011 10:21:33(UTC)
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Zyggy

I read it this morning & have sent back my comments, but in my opinion they have missed a great opportunity to refine the existing Regs & have a grown up debate about occupationally related road traffic injuries. Zyggy
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 01 February 2011 10:59:06(UTC)
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Ron Hunter

Given that all of the recommendations of Lord Young's recommendations have been 'accepted' by David Cameron's Government, and that Report also recommended an in-depth review of RIDDOR, aren't the HSE going about this the wrong way round? Why tinker around the edges of RIDDOR (which will involve significant costs in implementation) when a wider review is also proposed? Seems to me to be wholly inefficient. I fear HSE are working to unrealistic direction and unnecessary constraints.
Nick House  
#6 Posted : 01 February 2011 11:10:00(UTC)
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Ron - I fully agree. IMHO, it would have been better to have had a wider review on RIDDOR as a whole, incorporating the questions that have just been published. That way, they could have killed two birds with one stone - reviewing whether or not RIDDOR was still fit for purpose, and incorporate the current questions as a proposal for one change.
JYoung  
#7 Posted : 01 February 2011 11:19:20(UTC)
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JYoung

From what I understand of it it seems to be a way to potentially reduce the costs involved in processing the reports etc.. Thus saving companies and HSE money in the long run. If anything it provides an opportunity for some people to potentially fake injury etc to have more time off work before returning just before the 7 days are up. For example at present if a bit fed up of work fake an injury have a couple of days off then claim its better and return to work before third day thus no need for report to be made (has been known), 7 day limit gives opportunity for more time off etc etc. Is that a bit Cynical??
Paul Duell  
#8 Posted : 01 February 2011 11:47:39(UTC)
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Paul Duell

|'m concerned at the idea that firms find reporting RIDDORs to be a burden - surely in the whole process of dealing with an accident, investigating, putting in place corrective and preventive measures etc, the time taken to report to Contact Centre is an insignificant proportion of the overall time? If reducing reporting triggers from 3 days to 7 days is going to save anyone a worthwhile amount of time, I'd say that business has exactly the kind of problem that RIDDOR is supposed to flag. Accident under-reporting isn't happening becasue of anything that's going to be helped by increasing the time limit: Accident under reporting is happening because 1) Firms don't understand that holiday/weekend days are included in the three 2) Firms don't understand that if they get someone back on light duties, that still counts as "not fit for normal duties" 3) Managers wilfully play with the above definitions because they're measured by the number of reportables in their section, and their pay rise/bonus/continued employment depends on hitting targets 4) Firms wilfully play with the above definitions because a low reportables rate is key to securing contracts. None of these problems are going to be solved by changing the reporting definition. I'm not sure about J Young's point - the IP still has to report his "accident" in the same way he would if it was RIDDOR-able, so I don't really see how making a four day injury non-RIDDOR is going to encourage people to have four days off.
pl53  
#9 Posted : 01 February 2011 11:58:05(UTC)
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pl53

Yes I think it is a bit cynical. The reason I say that is because you seem to assume that the IP would care if the injury was reportable or not. Why would they care? It's no issue to them. If an injury is reportable it is only an issue for the employer. The HSE has no power to discipline an employee so why would the IP return to work before the reporting threshold anyway. If someone is going to use an "alleged" injury to skive off work increasing the reporting threshold will have no impact on this. The only way it could have an impact is if a company's disciplinary procedures allowed for extra disciplinary measures for reportable accidents, a stance which I think the company in question would find impossible to justifty.
John J  
#10 Posted : 01 February 2011 12:00:20(UTC)
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John J

JYoung wrote:
From what I understand of it it seems to be a way to potentially reduce the costs involved in processing the reports etc.. Thus saving companies and HSE money in the long run. If anything it provides an opportunity for some people to potentially fake injury etc to have more time off work before returning just before the 7 days are up. For example at present if a bit fed up of work fake an injury have a couple of days off then claim its better and return to work before third day thus no need for report to be made (has been known), 7 day limit gives opportunity for more time off etc etc. Is that a bit Cynical??
For the vast majority 7 days will mean the individual will be presenting a fit note to HR or will have returned to work after a period of self certified sick. It shouldn't change anything for those who rest up for a couple of days following a minor accident or those who fancy a couple of days off. It could of course go the other way and follow OSHAs line and report on a lost workday basis.
Fletcher  
#11 Posted : 01 February 2011 13:21:27(UTC)
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Fletcher

Afternoon All, What can I say??? An opportunity ignored as Ziggy has already said. 28 pages (ish) of assumptions/presumptions, bureaucratic waste and PC idiocy... The OSHCR & this consultation document have left me totally disappointed. What a waste of our tax to comply with suggestions submitted by a discredited politician, proved to be out of touch with the working world. Take Care
Bob Shillabeer  
#12 Posted : 01 February 2011 13:33:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bob Shillabeer

Very much a non event. The amount of revision in the paper is just repalcing three days with seven days nothing else changes. The paper amount to a comment gathering exercise about the change of two work seven replacing three. The amount pf reporting will not improve under the revised reporting timescale employers will simply ignore it. The amount of non-reporting shows the HSE has no wish to enforce the regulations as it has no effect on safety.
Salis  
#13 Posted : 01 February 2011 14:12:09(UTC)
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Salis

Paul I can't agree more, companies are more frightened that any negative reporting will lose contracts and damage the company prospects of winning contracts. The result generally is a wall of paperwork and reporting that hide the true state of affairs facing British Industry.
Bob Howden  
#14 Posted : 01 February 2011 14:18:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bob Howden

Agreed, a lost opportunity to sort out some of the other loose ends that have appeared over the years. All this just to save £200 thousand a year.
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