Rank: Forum user 
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I was travelling to a meeting during work time,in company car, on coming vehicle turned into me leading to a head on crash. I suffered serious injuries to my spine including a fracture to lumbar L3. Head injuries resulting in ten stiches to my scalp. Employer reduced my wages after one month to 3/4, then 1/2 and then to statutory sick pay. I was off work for over four months and went back to work under severe pain but needed the wages. Question is should have employer treated this as a work related accident and kept me on full wages
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Rank: Super forum user
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John
You need some solid independent legal advice here from an employment law solicitor and possibly an accident litigation lawyer. Strictly the accident is at work but there are obvious connotations with continuing with this employer if you push the legal buttons.
You could employ a quiet call to the enforcement (HSE or LA) as there should have been a riddor notification
Bob
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Rank: Forum user
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Bob
Thanks for the reply. Employer states that this was a RTA and not a work accident therefore RTA regs apply. Various h&s people(competent) in the office and they have agreed with employer that this is not RIDDoR. I would like to think that an employer would look after their employees after suffering an injury at work and would not reduce there wages. After returning to work did not do much as i could hardly walk never mind do anything constructive. I also believe when i was driving to work i was a danger to other road users.
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Rank: Super forum user
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johnb, bob is correct you need to consult a solicitor urgently. The employer is obliged to pay you the agreed pay as per your conditions of employment. That does not mean you lose out overall, as the person who caused the accident has to pay the rest. The cost of medical treatment has to be covered as the NHS will require you to pay out of any compensation you recieve so add that to any loss. But, the main point is seak legal advise not against your employer but the person who caused the accident.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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John
You had an accident that was apparently not your fault and I'm sorry you were injured.
You struggled back to work early but "did not do much as I could hardly walk never mind do anything constructive" ... but you expect your employer to pay for that.
"[You] also believe when I was driving to work I was a danger to other road users."
The first point is irresponsible - though you had your reasons - and may contribute to a slowed recovery. Neither your employer not the NHS wants to pick up the bill for that. It may also cloud any subsequent insurance claim.
The second point is far more serious and is arguably criminally irresponsible. You drive and you consider that you were a danger to other road users!
How does that square with the actions of a responsible individual, safety professional or Joe public? But for a safety professional and IOSH member, to admit that - even though hidden behind a pseudonym - I'm appalled.
Get well soon, and stay out of your vehicle until you are fit to drive and can do so without putting others in danger.
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Rank: Super forum user
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You need legal advice, as already advised.
Your vehicle insurance may already cover you for that, or your household insurance.
if not then there are a massive amount of legal advisors who will act for you under the No-Win-No-Fee
arrangement.
Legal advice is also covered (up to 30 mins I think) under the law societies various schemes, see a solicitor.
As for others comments about it being irresponsible to drive if injured....they may be right...but many do, and under the "Fit [for not much] note" scheme many more will be driving, and working, "unfit".
If you had a "fit note" and you considered that working was harming you, then there are a fair few who consider that your GP may be liable for issuing said note.
Legal advice first though.
Are you in a union ?
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Rank: Super forum user
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John
At the end of the day it really depends on whether you want to keep the job or not. The advisers of your HR are obviously trying to manipulate their statistics or are not competent in interpreting RIDDOR - you were required to travel to another place as part of your work and thus you are at work. The relevant enforcer, HSE or Local Authority depending on your employment sector, would want to know of a failure to report and you can tell them anonymously.
You must sue the other driver and this needs to be done asap - get your employers to prepare a loss of earnings statement immediately. Most motor insurance policies cover legal expenses insurance but I do hope you included business use if it was your own vehicle. I trust that your employers advised you of this. Get legal help now
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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Sorry missed company car so get the company insurers involved in suing the driver. Good employers normally cover the wage loss in the interim but some do not. I suspect they attempted a claim on the insurance already.
Bob
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Rank: Super forum user
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The question was should the have employer treated this as a work related accident and kept me on full wages. This is wholy dependent upon your contract of employment. Remember when you are not at work due to the injury the employer has to get your job done by someone else. That costs money generally, so there is an extra cost to your employer. You are being payed in accordance with your contract of employment therefore your company insurance would only cover the additional costs your company faces. You would need to persue any other loss of earnings from the person respnsible for the accident. Most employers would however assist this by making the company solicitors available to you as they already have knowledge of all the facts of the case. Your employer has met his agreed responsibility the rest is up to you I'm afraid.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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John, I am sorry that you have been injured in this accident and I hope that you are on the mend soon, and make a ‘good’ recovery.
The question you ask “.. should have employer treated this as a work related accident and kept me on full wages”. ? is interesting. At first sight it looked like 2 questions
1. should have employer treated this as a work related accident; AND
2. Should I have been paid full wages while I was off sick?
However, I think the real essence is related to the latter I.e. you being paid in full by your employer.
To try and tease out the issues then. Putting the issue of your sick pay/full wages to one side; are you suggesting that your employer hasn’t treated this as a ’work related injury’, and if so in what way? In fairness (and I expect to be shot down by any number of people) I suggest that your employer actually had little or no control over the accident and therefore no ‘responsibility’ for it either, so rather than being a work related accident I suggest that it was an accident sustained while at work? I think that there is a subtle but important distinction between the two.
Now for the crunch question. I do not think that your employer is under any strict (statutory) legal obligation to pay you your full wages, whether this was work related or not. You MAY have a contractual right to enhanced pay, in addition to SSP; that will be detailed in your contract of employment. Employers can suspend that contractual right in certain circumstances, although I wouldn’t think that this situation would be one of those.
I suggest that your ‘beef’ is actually with the driver that caused the accident, your injury and subsequent loss of earnings. If there is little question over the liability then you could seek an interim payment from the 3rd party insurer and I have seen this happen on a number of occasions. This is to assist the injured party in the interim period in cases of financial hardship, while ’they’ argue the terms of the final settlement, which can take some considerable time.
I can’t help but feel; that your post at #3 “I would like to think that an employer would look after their employees after suffering an injury at work and would not reduce there [sic] wages.”., is slightly naïve. I know that sounds rather harsh, but the reality of working life for a great many people is that their employers do not pay contractual sick pay and that people are often left to ‘fend for themselves’. That being said, IF your employer does pay contractual sick pay, then they should pay YOU and then claim that back from the insured driver at fault. This is something that my ‘company’ has done on a number of occasions.
RIDDOR! Oh dear me! I can’t help but feel that Bob’s statement at #7 “The advisers of your HR are obviously trying to manipulate their statistics or are not competent in interpreting RIDDOR - ..” is at best unhelpful, probably grossly unfair and possibly defamatory. I really do not believe that this is reportable under RIDDOR and I suggest that your company has interpreted this correctly, rather than them being either manipulative or incompetent. RIDDOR reg 10 (2) applies, see http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l73.pdf and in particular the guidance in paragraphs 95/96. It would be helpful if the guidance also provided specific examples where reporting was not required! I do not suggest that reporting your company to the HSE would be a terribly wise approach to adopt in this particular instance.
Yes, I tend to agree that some legal advice might be helpful. However, a no win no fee company is unlikely to take up your ‘cause’ for your employer not paying your full wages. As I have already said I don’t believe they are under any (statutory) legal obligation to. I really do suggest that a non confrontational approach to your employer to find out IF you are entitled to contractual sick pay in these circumstances, and if so why you aren’t getting it.
Lastly, while I sympathise with your 'predicament' I also empathise with Ian’s comment at #5!
Ramble over.
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Rank: Super forum user
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please note that the term 'RTA' no longer exists the term is now RTC [collision]
A: Is it a work related accident = Yes
B: Is it RIDDOR = No [even the revised RIDDOR will not have RTC's included]
C: Do my employers have to pay = Apart from stat sick pay it all depends on your T&C's
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Rank: Super forum user
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Rank: Forum user 
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I naturally agree that what John is asking is something which relates to his employment conditions and not directly to H&S - and is something whihc he should discuss with a Solicitor and not necessarily safety practitioners - it does raise an interesting point regarding how we perceive the issue of 'workplace' RTCs.
I am aware that under RIDDOR 95 road traffic accidents involving people travelling in the course of their work, which are covered by road traffic legislation are not reportable. However, jarring my mind over this one. The wider point here seems less to do with RIDDOR but with HASAW and MHSAW.
The HSE http://www.hse.gov.uk/roadsafety/ provides the following information:
"Managing the risks to employees who drive at work requires more than just compliance with road traffic legislation.
The Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 requires employers to take appropriate steps to ensure the health and safety of their employees and others who may be affected by their activities when at work. This includes the time when they are driving, or riding at work, whether this is in a company or hired vehicle, or in the employees own vehicle.
There will always be risks associated with driving. Although these cannot be completely controlled an employer has a responsibility to take all reasonable steps to manage these risks down to as low a level as reasonably possible in the same way as they would in the workplace."
Given the inclusion of 'working hours' to cover those when one is using a vehicle as part of their job any accident result from this should be recorded appropriately. Whilst, it may be at the discretion of the Practitioner if they should report under RIDDOR - erring to the side of caution - the underlying principle would be that it still remains an industrial (workplace accident).
Andrew Böber CMIOSH FRSPH FRGS
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Rank: Super forum user
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The question was simply should the employer have contnued to pay his normal wages. He asked nothing else about RIDDOR or any thing like it. The answer is it depends on your terms of employment. At the minimum statutory sick pay is due and nothing else. If the injured party wants more he needs to talk to a solicitor and follow the claim through the courts, as simple as that. Forget about the HASAW Act and the Management Regs this does not fall into the question put, it is simply a conditions of employment issue, he is making no claim against his employer after all.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Bob, Andrew. I wholeheartedly agree, this is an employment question, which has been 'dressed up' as health and safety.
RIDDOR and the reporting of the employer too the HSE was raised at #2. IMHO, the first was incorrect, and the latter ill advised. I for one have never quite understood the preoccupation with advising people to report their employer to the HSE for every potential 'misdemeanour' rather than engaging in dialogue with the employer!
The article to which Guru refers is 'interesting'!! The legal advice from this company is that, firstly:
"RIDDOR is a compulsory reporting system for all work-related personal injuries" I suggest that none of us are likely to agree with that statement; with the emphasis on ALL, it is factually incorrect.
and secondly, "Companies are required by law, according to 1995 regulations, to report employee road traffic accidents which result in them being off work for more than three days in a row", again I would say that most of us would accept that, that is also factually incorrect, and in any case wouldn't be confined to over 3 day injuries.
For information RIDDOR could I suggest that people actually read the regs and accompanying HSE guidance rather than rely on the 'legal advice' of a 'no win no fee' claims company?
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Rank: Forum user
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Thanks for the replies interesting thoughts.
The other driver accepted full responsibility and was fined £400 for dangerous driving. I am now classed as midly disabled and my back will not fully recover. Iam still at work full time so can't complain. I have got legal advice and taking the other driver to court. I know it was not really a h&s issue but feel agreived at the actions of the employer. At least i'm stll working and hanging together.
Johnb
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Rank: Guest
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Glad to read how you have made progress and in a condition ready to resume working.
At the same time, I feel it's a shame that you need to state that you feel 'aggrieved' rather than apparently failing to consider whether you have asked the appropirate questions of YOURSELF.
As you describe it, the response of your employer has given you very claer indicaions about the realities of the culture they actually practice. Feeling aggrieved is only one option now available to you; there are many other contructive ones, even if counselling or coaching is required to anable you to profit from them and to develop.
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Rank: Forum user
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we have quite a few RTCs per year to staff travelling between calls, these do net get reported under RIDDOR HSE are quite happy with this.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Quote:Injuries which are not reportable under RIDDOR 95 are: road traffic accidents involving people travelling in the course of their work, which are covered by road traffic legislation; accidents reportable under separate merchant shipping, civil aviation and air navigation legislation; and accidents to members of the armed forces
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/sources.htm
To Phil,
I doesnt take much to make an interesting read for me :)
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